Did or did not Kirk notice Spock leave the bridge in TWOK

[Captain Clark Terrell]

I don't buy it. I think the scene is meant to play out as though Kirk is so preoccupied, he doesn't realize Spock is gone. That may sound strange, but don't forget that technically, Spock was the ship's captain and not its science officer, even though he temporarily assumes that position.

There's nothing technical about it. Spock was captain of the Enterprise during TWOK. Kirk took command only because of the emergency.

--Sran

 

[cgervasi]

^Agree with these comments. Also, keep in mind that Kirk's is actually surprised moments before that when it's McCoy who answers his message rather than Scotty. For all we, Kirk's next words would have been, "Get started on repairs as soon as possible, and have Captain Spock make his way back to the bridge once he's finished assisting you," had everything turned out okay. It's only when McCoy sounds so shaken that he looks at Spock's chair and begins to understand what's happened.

I'm sure he knew Spock had left the bridge to go to Engineering, but he probably never guessed that Spock's solution for saving the ship would involve him sacrificing his own life.

When he looked at Spock's chair, it wasn't the first time he realized Spock wasn't sitting in it. He knew Spock was doing something important in the emergency, but he didn't know what. He works it out when he hears McCoy's voice.

 

[LMFAOschwarz]

It's only when McCoy sounds so shaken that he looks at Spock's chair and begins to understand what's happened.--Sran

We never talk about voice-over acting much, but Kelley read those lines over the comm really well. As you said, he sounds shaken.

It worked out a bit better than in This Side of Paradise, where over the communicator McCoy was like "Y'all come down, Jimmy boah, and have a taall, coool, Geogiah stahle mint julep", followed by a sober, business-as-usual "McCoy out."

Regarding the movie, though, I too suspect Kirk knew Spock was missing from the bridge, for after hearing McCoy, what's the very first thing Kirk did? Look over at Spock's seat.

 

[Gassy Man]

I don't buy it. I think the scene is meant to play out as though Kirk is so preoccupied, he doesn't realize Spock is gone. That may sound strange, but don't forget that technically, Spock was the ship's captain and not its science officer, even though he temporarily assumes that position.

There's nothing technical about it. Spock was captain of the Enterprise during TWOK. Kirk took command only because of the emergency.

--Sran

But he assumes the role of science officer and, presumably, first officer. Kirk literally assumes command. Their ranks don't change, but Kirk acts as the ship's commanding officer, or captain.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Regarding the movie, though, I too suspect Kirk knew Spock was missing from the bridge, for after hearing McCoy, what's the very first thing Kirk did? Look over at Spock's seat.

Thinking about it now, I wonder if maybe the issue isn't whether Kirk knew Spock was gone, but whether his reaction was actually due to the fact that Spock hadn't come back. Prior to Kirk speaking with McCoy over the comm system, he's seen looking over his shoulder at Carol in moment of shared amazement over the birth of the Genesis planet. I wonder if maybe he assumed Spock had snuck back onto the bridge while he was gawking at Genesis--only to realize something was wrong when he heard Bones' reply via the comm.

--Sran

 

[Ssosmcin]

I'll buy that. If Kirk didn't know Spock left, why would he assume it was Spock who was injured down there? His first thought would probably be for Scotty. I would buy that Kirk assumed Spock was running down to see what he could do. Then it dawned on him: he didn't come back. The radiation.

I'm sold.

 

[Ithekro]

Probably because if it has been Scotty, Spock would have answered the call.

 

[Ssosmcin]

Maybe, but Spock could have been busy. Or on his way back up. McCoy was the one who responded when Kirk called Scotty. That would tell me Scotty is incapacitated.

 

[enterprisecvn65]

Maybe, but Spock could have been busy. Or on his way back up. McCoy was the one who responded when Kirk called Scotty. That would tell me Scotty is incapacitated.

I would tend to agree given that earlier Kirk had been talking to scotty over the intercom when scotty he had to take the mains off line because of radiation and then he passed out right after and kirk seems to understand he's not right when he says "scotty" in a worried voice.

Bottom line is the writers wanted us to believe Spock slipped away unnoticed by Kirk, if they wanted us to believe Kirk knew all they would have had to do is show a quick shot of kirk looking spock as he got in the turbolift, realize spock was going to see if he could help (Not understanding the seriousness of the situation obviously) and then go back to doing whatever the hell he was doing on the bridge besides asking for time updates and sitting in his chair with his arms crossed when it looked all over. Or when he called to the engine room to ask what's happening he could have said "Scotty, Spock....anyone come in".

Instead there is no clue given that Kirk even faintly realizes Spock is gone, as unbelieveable as it may sound. Why? It made it more dramatic when Bones called and he noticed the chair.

Yeah it could have been Scotty who was dying in there I mean Doohan did kill people and get shot 6 times in real life so I don't question his courage. But it would have been kind of sad and funny for Kirk to get to the engine room and see scotty in there and Spock standing outside unharmed and Kirk go "Oh thank God it's only Scotty, I thought Spock was the one who was dying" And then watch Doohan go ape shit and break down the plexiglass (or transparent aluminum I guess) wall to kick Shatner's ass as Nimoy and Kelley try to restrain him.

 

[FormerLurker]

Kirk DOES KNOW that Spock is not on the bridge. At one point during the Genesis countdown, he goes over to Spock's science station to examine the displays, standing where Spock would sit, and at least one other time he looks over to David standing right next to Spock's (empty) chair. Kirk also receives the usual time/distance reports from other members of the crew, something Spock often did.

To not notice Spock missing in this circumstance is obliviousness of the can't-walk-and-chew-gum-at-the-same-time degree.

I believe Kirk's glance toward Spock's chair and his reaction is not the "holy crap, where the colorful-metaphor is Spock????????" it may appear to be and more symbolic. It's not that Spock is not on the bridge, but that Spock is not where he usually is: at his friend and Captain's side.

I agree with you totally that it would be almost beyond belief for Kirk not to notice Spock's absence during that scene.

All I'm saying is the way it's filmed, from the close up of Spock's face at he quickly weighs his options and acts on his own, to the fact he sort of breezed behind Kirk into the turbolift when Kirk was distracted by telling Sulu to get us the hell out of here, and most glaringly the fact he seemed to only realize Spock was gone when McCoy called and he noticed the empty chair all seem to strongly indicate the film makers intent was to imply Kirk didn't even notice Spock was gone.

Like I said it's almost beyond belief to think Kirk wouldn't notice, but that's the way the shooting of the film looks like it wants us to think

Like I said either way it's a great scene and it's not a deal breaker, just a little nagging detail I've never really been able to decide one way or the other for sure.

As long as you stop saying it was 6 minutes when the script says it was 3 and a half.

 

[Memory Alpha]

There is a big difference, yes, between recognizing that Spock sort of slipped out the door and connecting it to something that's tragically wrong. I think Kirk is probably subconsciously aware that Spock slid away, but not enough to say, "Hey, is Spock down there?" In the scene where Kirk looks at the chair, he is simply connecting Spock's absence to something being wrong. I think you could argue either way on the original question, but it has to be acknowledged that Spock is rather stealthy. In the TFF when they are climbing that awful ladder, I don't think Kirk realizes that Spock is gone. He's focused on what is directly in front of him, which is getting to the top! In TWOK he's focused on what those gauges are reading and the countdown.

 

[Gassy Man]

The fact that Kirk only looks at the chair suggests to me that is the first time he consciously realizes Spock is missing at all, as though Spock is supposed to be there and only there.

 

[enterprisecvn65]

Kirk DOES KNOW that Spock is not on the bridge. At one point during the Genesis countdown, he goes over to Spock's science station to examine the displays, standing where Spock would sit, and at least one other time he looks over to David standing right next to Spock's (empty) chair. Kirk also receives the usual time/distance reports from other members of the crew, something Spock often did.

To not notice Spock missing in this circumstance is obliviousness of the can't-walk-and-chew-gum-at-the-same-time degree.

I believe Kirk's glance toward Spock's chair and his reaction is not the "holy crap, where the colorful-metaphor is Spock????????" it may appear to be and more symbolic. It's not that Spock is not on the bridge, but that Spock is not where he usually is: at his friend and Captain's side.

I agree with you totally that it would be almost beyond belief for Kirk not to notice Spock's absence during that scene.

All I'm saying is the way it's filmed, from the close up of Spock's face at he quickly weighs his options and acts on his own, to the fact he sort of breezed behind Kirk into the turbolift when Kirk was distracted by telling Sulu to get us the hell out of here, and most glaringly the fact he seemed to only realize Spock was gone when McCoy called and he noticed the empty chair all seem to strongly indicate the film makers intent was to imply Kirk didn't even notice Spock was gone.

Like I said it's almost beyond belief to think Kirk wouldn't notice, but that's the way the shooting of the film looks like it wants us to think

Like I said either way it's a great scene and it's not a deal breaker, just a little nagging detail I've never really been able to decide one way or the other for sure.

As long as you stop saying it was 6 minutes when the script says it was 3 and a half.

You got it

I also won't refer to the point when Kirk (sitting in his chair with his arms folded like "Well can't do shit now, so I'm just going to sit here and wait for the end") asks Savvik for a time mark and she replies 3 minutes 30 seconds and since David said it was a four minute countdown we can safely assume there are only 30 seconds left, assuming Savvik was right on the mark time wise. And in that 30 seconds.

1. Kirk asks Chekov the distance from Reliant to which Chekov replies 4,000 kilometers.
2. Sulu says "We're not going to make it are we" and Kirk is able to look over at David who shakes his to confirm they're dead.
3. Khan is able to go on his last rant about how they cant get away and stabbing and spitting at thee and have the camera linger on him for 2 or 3 seconds after his last word.
4. Spock is able to complete his repairs and replace the lid to the mains.
5. A junior officer informs Kirk that the mains are back on line
6. Kirk says "bless you scotty, go sulu" and sulu is able to engage the warp engines and still have 3 or so seconds before Reliant explodes.

I'm sure if I time it it'd be 30 seconds right on the nose just like the script says

 

[Gassy Man]

I agree with you totally that it would be almost beyond belief for Kirk not to notice Spock's absence during that scene.

All I'm saying is the way it's filmed, from the close up of Spock's face at he quickly weighs his options and acts on his own, to the fact he sort of breezed behind Kirk into the turbolift when Kirk was distracted by telling Sulu to get us the hell out of here, and most glaringly the fact he seemed to only realize Spock was gone when McCoy called and he noticed the empty chair all seem to strongly indicate the film makers intent was to imply Kirk didn't even notice Spock was gone.

Like I said it's almost beyond belief to think Kirk wouldn't notice, but that's the way the shooting of the film looks like it wants us to think

Like I said either way it's a great scene and it's not a deal breaker, just a little nagging detail I've never really been able to decide one way or the other for sure.

As long as you stop saying it was 6 minutes when the script says it was 3 and a half.

You got it

I also won't refer to the point when Kirk (sitting in his chair with his arms folded like "Well can't do shit now, so I'm just going to sit here and wait for the end") asks Savvik for a time mark and she replies 3 minutes 30 seconds and since David said it was a four minute countdown we can safely assume there are only 30 seconds left, assuming Savvik was right on the mark time wise. And in that 30 seconds.

1. Kirk asks Chekov the distance from Reliant to which Chekov replies 4,000 kilometers.
2. Sulu says "We're not going to make it are we" and Kirk is able to look over at David who shakes his to confirm they're dead.
3. Khan is able to go on his last rant about how they cant get away and stabbing and spitting at thee and have the camera linger on him for 2 or 3 seconds after his last word.
4. Spock is able to complete his repairs and replace the lid to the mains.
5. A junior officer informs Kirk that the mains are back on line
6. Kirk says "bless you scotty, go sulu" and sulu is able to engage the warp engines and still have 3 or so seconds before Reliant explodes.

I'm sure if I time it it'd be 30 seconds right on the nose just like the script says

These things may not be happening sequentially but simultaneously, or close to it.

 

[f14peter]

The fact that Kirk only looks at the chair suggests to me that is the first time he consciously realizes Spock is missing at all, as though Spock is supposed to be there and only there.

Because not only does Kirk look over toward David prior to that, who happened to be standing right next to Spock's empty chair, but earlier in the scene Kirk goes back over to Spock's science station, and leans in to look at the displays, right where Spock would be sitting, Kirk had to be aware. If Spock was there, Kirk would have literally been standing on Spock's feet.

I'll still contend that even though as depicted it could seem that Kirk only realizes Spock isn't there after McCoy's call, Kirk's sudden turn toward the science station and his reaction were more representative of either his hoping against hope that Spock was there instead of the engine room where he knew Spock was, or his realization that Spock was gone, as in dead (or dyeing).

 

[Gassy Man]

The fact that Kirk only looks at the chair suggests to me that is the first time he consciously realizes Spock is missing at all, as though Spock is supposed to be there and only there.

Because not only does Kirk look over toward David prior to that, who happened to be standing right next to Spock's empty chair, but earlier in the scene Kirk goes back over to Spock's science station, and leans in to look at the displays, right where Spock would be sitting, Kirk had to be aware. If Spock was there, Kirk would have literally been standing on Spock's feet.

I'll still contend that even though as depicted it could seem that Kirk only realizes Spock isn't there after McCoy's call, Kirk's sudden turn toward the science station and his reaction were more representative of either his hoping against hope that Spock was there instead of the engine room where he knew Spock was, or his realization that Spock was gone, as in dead (or dyeing).

I took it to mean that that was the first time he realized Spock wasn't really there -- that he wouldn't have looked at an empty station and only there if he already knew Spock had left. But I see what you're saying as possible.

 

[Maurice]

If you look at the film, there's no way he could have missed that Spock was gone. He's at Spock's station when he calls down to Engineering.

 

[Commishsleer]

If you look at the film, there's no way he could have missed that Spock was gone. He's at Spock's station when he calls down to Engineering.

After the fact.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Spock just randomly up and leaving, and Kirk not noticing are part of why I think the Wrath of Khan sacrifice is too contrived. It comes out of nowhere and seems tacked on. At the risk of starting World War 3, I think the version in Into Darkness fits better, the movie building to it from the start.

 

[Gassy Man]

Spock just randomly up and leaving, and Kirk not noticing are part of why I think the Wrath of Khan sacrifice is too contrived. It comes out of nowhere and seems tacked on. At the risk of starting World War 3, I think the version in Into Darkness fits better, the movie building to it from the start.

But Spock isn't just "randomly up and leaving" -- the point is he overhears the situation in Engineering and in an instant makes his Kobayashi Maru decision. That's why it fits so well with his character, who would simply act without dramatic fanfare. That Kirk didn't realize he was gone is not hard to believe in a film where he said things like "caught with my britches down. I must be going senile" and "I feel old, worn out." The whole point is that his character is not functioning fully.

Into Darkness is an abysmal film, from the erupting volcano that will somehow destroy a planet to the contrivances to get Khan to wipe out Starfleet Command to the whole torpedo thing and so forth. An utterly witless, brainless triviality.