Did Kirk sort of die on the Enterprise B?

[Gorn Captain]

The weaknesses of the Nexus storyline have been well documented, but let me see if I understand. Kirk did not die aboard the Enterprise B but instead was drawn immediately and completely into the Nexus? What went into the Nexus, his body and soul, or just his soul? If just his soul, does that mean his body is floating around in space AND is buried on Veridian III?

 

[Admiral_Young]

His physical body went into the Nexus after the energy ribbon struck that part of the ship's hull compromising it. Soran explains in the film that you are physically inside of the Nexus when it envelops you. So technically Kirk didn't die on the ship or in space, he was sucked into the Nexus.

 

[Gorn Captain]

His physical body went into the Nexus after the energy ribbon struck that part of the ship's hull compromising it. Soran explains in the film that you are physically inside of the Nexus when it envelops you. So technically Kirk didn't die on the ship or in space, he was sucked into the Nexus.

And the "echo" that Guinan spoke of is a remnant of those who have been ripped from the Nexus?

I don't know, the whole Idea is a bit goofy, isn't it? What's the mechanism for negotiating the Nexus? When you want to leave you just think it and it becomes so? How does that work if it is moving through space? You have to be in a fixed physical spacw to enter it, but it can just deposit you wherever you like? And if it is interdimensional, how is it also used as a time travel device?

 

[Bishop76]

I don't know, the whole Idea is a bit goofy, isn't it?

You said it yourself - the Nexus is a horrible plot device that isn't worth wasting any thought on.

 

[T'Girl]

In Generations, both Picard and Soran physically disappeared as the nexus ribbon passes over them, so Kirk's body wouldn't have been just floating out in space after his consciousness, his soul, was taken. Now that doesn't mean tha his body was transferred into the nexus, but I think that's exactly what happen.

Something had to be able of leaving the nexus and being physically present in the "real world" again when Kirk and Picard left the nexus. This is why Guinan could not leave the nexus with Picard when he asked, her pysically form, her body, had already left.

When in the nexus you are either motionless and all your experiences occur in your head, or you are actual experiencing all the nexus event with your own physical being.

One thing I wonder is, is Soren still in the nexus?

How does that work if it is moving through space?

The mouth, the opening of the nexus is moving through the galaxy in real time, Picard was able to return to Veridium III because the nexus had been there, so maybe Picard couldn't have instead exited the nexus on Earth days before and saved his bother and nephew if the ribbon had never been there.

You can only get off the bus somewhere on it's route.


.

 

[Gorn Captain]

I don't know, the whole Idea is a bit goofy, isn't it?

You said it yourself - the Nexus is a horrible plot device that isn't worth wasting any thought on.

You're right, but I am stuck at work and bored, so I will just continue to shoot holes in Generations, which I watched on Blu-Ray today and enjoyed the appearance of, anyway.

I do wonder about Soran, T'Girl, but I suppose I more frequently wonder why Picard wouldn't exit the Nexus to an earlier point and neatly wrap upnthe whole thing?

And why the heck couldn't the Enterprise locate Soran on the planet's surface? He's the only person on the planet! Instead Picard has to trade himself as a hostage to get the coordinates from the Klingon Coors Light Twins.

 

[Potemkin_Prod]

I suspect that Guinan isn't so much as memory of Guinan but more or less a mouthpiece for the Nexus itself.

 

[Admiral_Young]

The Nexus was just plain stupid as a plot device. It's only purpose was to serve as a linking point for both Kirk and Picard.

 

[sonak]

In Generations, both Picard and Soran physically disappeared as the nexus ribbon passes over them, so Kirk's body wouldn't have been just floating out in space after his consciousness, his soul, was taken. Now that doesn't mean tha his body was transferred into the nexus, but I think that's exactly what happen.

Something had to be able of leaving the nexus and being physically present in the "real world" again when Kirk and Picard left the nexus. This is why Guinan could not leave the nexus with Picard when he asked, her pysically form, her body, had already left.

When in the nexus you are either motionless and all your experiences occur in your head, or you are actual experiencing all the nexus event with your own physical being.

One thing I wonder is, is Soren still in the nexus?

How does that work if it is moving through space?

The mouth, the opening of the nexus is moving through the galaxy in real time, Picard was able to return to Veridium III because the nexus had been there, so maybe Picard couldn't have instead exited the nexus on Earth days before and saved his bother and nephew if the ribbon had never been there.

You can only get off the bus somewhere on it's route.


.

yours(and mine on another thread) is a better explanation but it's not the movie's. Echo-Guinan tells Picard that he can go anywhere, anytime through the Nexus, which turns it into a magical plot device.


And yeah, Soren's been pulled involuntarily from the Nexus TWICE, so you'd think he has some echoes left of him in there.

 

[T'Girl]

^ No, what I ment was, both Picard and Soran physically entered the Nexus together, they were in the nexus at the same time (but separate). When Picard left the nexus with kirk, Soran physically remained inside.

Is Soren physically still inside, even after Picad killed the Soren in the new timeline that existed subsquent to Picard's re-entry into the "real" universe?

Maybe I didn't express that right, but do you see what I mean?

 

[sonak]

Oh. Well generally when characters in Trek change the past, the view of time that's presented is that it's part of one, unified timeline.


I don't think Picard's actions were supposed to have been seen as producing a new, alternate timeline, as much as changing the timeline he was already in.

 

[Captrek]

I don't know if Picard has an "echo" in the Nexus, since he changed history to prevent himself from entering the Nexus in the first place.

Question: Picard and Kirk exit the Nexus and arrive on Veridian III a few minutes before Soran launched his rocket. But Picard is already there! Why aren't there two of him? Does the Picard who's already there disappear when Kirk and Picard arrive from the Nexus?

 

[CoveTom]

The Nexus is yet another example of trying to fit the round peg of their big list of 'requirements' into the square hole of the plot.

It was decided early on -- and I think this may have been by the writers than a studio dictate -- that they wanted to avoid a traditional time travel story. But yet they wanted Kirk and Picard to meet. Well, unless Picard is going to meet Kirk as a really old man, ala McCoy in "Encounter at Farpoint," it's kinda hard for them to meet without time travel. You have to come up with a plot contrivance.

They did that once in "Relics" with Scotty and the transporter. It was actually a very simple plot device and served the story well.

They did it very unsuccessfully with the Nexus, which was a much more complicated, and much less thought out, plot device that hit the ground with a thud.

 

[Gorn Captain]

I don't know if Picard has an "echo" in the Nexus, since he changed history to prevent himself from entering the Nexus in the first place.

Question: Picard and Kirk exit the Nexus and arrive on Veridian III a few minutes before Soran launched his rocket. But Picard is already there! Why aren't there two of him? Does the Picard who's already there disappear when Kirk and Picard arrive from the Nexus?

Good point! There SHOULD be two of them! Which means that Picard shouldn't need Kirk's help, he has two of himself to do it, so there's ANOTHER reason for Kirk not to die such a shabby death.

 

[Admiral_Young]

Good question. Probably something the writers forgot about.

 

[Captrek]

I’m going to go with the theory that Picard never leaves the Nexus, and his victory with Kirk over Soran, as well as his subsequent victories over the Borg, Ru’afo, and Shinzon, are all simulated à la Ship in a Bottle.

 

[Gorn Captain]

I would also like to know, who the hell built all those bridges and ramps, and why? They weren't there, the planet is uninhabited. Did Soran make the Klingons build bridges for him? Why? Couldn't his rocket and platform have just been beamed/assembled at the top of the hill?

 

[Finn]

One thing I always wondered, why didn't the nexus take the Enterprise survivors with them? The way they showed the people on the saucer just before the planet exploded implied otherwise.

 

[Finn]

I’m going to go with the theory that Picard never leaves the Nexus, and his victory with Kirk over Soran, as well as his subsequent victories over the Borg, Ru’afo, and Shinzon, are all simulated à la Ship in a Bottle.

He wanted Data to die?

 

[Captrek]

I’m going to go with the theory that Picard never leaves the Nexus, and his victory with Kirk over Soran, as well as his subsequent victories over the Borg, Ru’afo, and Shinzon, are all simulated à la Ship in a Bottle.

He wanted Data to die?

Though support for this is admittedly noncanonical, Data doesn’t stay dead. Geordi, along with engineers from the Soong Foundation, recover the memory engrams that Data stored in B-4 and overwrite B-4’s mind with Data’s.

Yes, it sounds murderous to me too, but nobody likes B-4, so it’s OK.

One thing I always wondered, why didn't the nexus take the Enterprise survivors with them? The way they showed the people on the saucer just before the planet exploded implied otherwise.

Presumably the Enterprise saucer was too far away from the path of the Nexus. It didn’t envelop the whole planet.