Why would it do that? B'Ellana for want of a better way of describing it is half Klingon and half Human. Not two whole beings and a plant to begin with. Her 'whole' would be identified and returned like regular transporting, no spare DNA there.. As you say the flower.
Did Janeway Kill Tuvix?
- Thread starter Chief Medical Officer
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You make zero sense so don't worry about it.
Yes becasue it's much easier to take lives when you don't consider that person/group to have the same rights as everyone else.
You brought up a supporting example, that didn't actually support you. In fact, the novel advocated against everything you were arguing.
Ergo: self-sabotage.
We know it is possible to split up b'Elanna, since the Vidiians did it to her (not by the same technique, probably, but still).
Do you know what exactly the structural differences are between DNA that is 'merged' by transporter accident , and DNA that is merged by procreation, causing the technique to work in one instance but not the other? Because I don't. (I'm not saying these differences aren't there, just that I couldn't point them out, based on the information we're given in the episode.)
Do you know what exactly the structural differences are between DNA that is 'merged' by transporter accident , and DNA that is merged by procreation, causing the technique to work in one instance but not the other? Because I don't. (I'm not saying these differences aren't there, just that I couldn't point them out, based on the information we're given in the episode.)
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M
marlboro
Guest
Just because something is legal doesn't make it morally right. If the government fell, and there were no more laws, would murder and rape suddenly be "right"? Of curse not.
I think Tuvix would have been perfectly right to grab a phaser and fight his way out of there. They were about to murder him. Would you say a lion that was being hunted by humans for food to be morally obligated to meekly lay down its life? No? So why should a sentient being?
He was alive. They murdered him. The ending scene where he is begging for mercy and the crew turns a deaf ear is monstrous.
By that reasoning Tuvok and Neelix weren't dead and would live on in Tuvix.
The idea was not to make even more people.. yikes. It was to return the status quo like normal transporting does. The Doctor was not into going all Vidiian on them.
What's a 'corpse bit,' if not simply a part of someone that no longer has any heart or brain activity?
Although Frankenstein's monster being stitched-together corpses is a bit of a misrepresentation anyway. Frankenstein notably refuses to say what he did, but the description of what The Creature's looks suggest that wasn't it.
Although Frankenstein's monster being stitched-together corpses is a bit of a misrepresentation anyway. Frankenstein notably refuses to say what he did, but the description of what The Creature's looks suggest that wasn't it.
Exactly. They weren't dead and that is why Janeway had a right to rescue them. Tuvix is alive too.. it's just no one wants to recreate him..
Not my idea either. My point is simply that by giving this example of something we've actually seen in the show, once you start fiddling with transporters, and getting accidents like merging two persons into one, and splitting one person into two, there is no longer an easy frame of reference of which is more 'real', or who of them has more right to live. Except maybe for the 'status quo' argument. (which could be perfectly valid, can't really judge that).
Perhaps they should just as bluntly have said: we think Tuvok and Neelix have more right to live, as they were naturally born that way, were here before Tuvix so they have older rights, and we've known them for a longer time.
It wouldn't have sounded like a sophisticated ethical argument, but it would probably have been the simple truth.
Or I/we want our old friends back, and sure on an emotional level I can understand that but that doesn't mean I don't think Janeway's actions where illegal, unetheical and Immoral.
I guess for me I consider the source. When B'Ellana was split she was split into two new beings. Yes they were two B'Ellanas but they had never taken those forms before. Having our B'Ellana as 'one' was the frame of reference. Not to be crass but although Tuvix was a combo, his frame of reference was Tuvok and Neelix. (Frankenstein's monster.. his frame of reference was.. I'm going with other people's dead bits. How they died is not my call. However they were never going to be returned to a whole life).
I agree with you in that priority of rights were given to Tuvok and Neelix.
"Tuvix" was a standout episode and classic Trek. It centered on a morale debate that really made the viewer think.
While not executed or killed, Tuvix's life was involuntary ended but not a true death. He became two people again, just as he was before he was 'born', but he had individual conscious and was self aware.
While not executed or killed, Tuvix's life was involuntary ended but not a true death. He became two people again, just as he was before he was 'born', but he had individual conscious and was self aware.
I'm glad we agree that Tuvix was self aware and had an individual conscious. So if you involuntary take another persons life would that be a crime?
Tuvix was also Tuvok's millennia old sentient Super-Syphilis, and Kes' lung... How much of Kes' personality was inserted into this person, and maybe that's why the rest of Kes didn't want to kiss and snuggle with a bloke that was almost %50 her boyfriend?
She didn't want to make love to someone who was herself.
Autophilophobia?
Onanophobia, apparently.
She didn't want to make love to someone who was herself.
Autophilophobia?
Onanophobia, apparently.
I read a difference between saying "Tuvix's life was involuntarily ended" and "if you involuntarily take another person life" The first seems to suggest Tuvix didn't volunteer to be.. ended. The second emphasizes you involuntarily taking a life.
If one involuntarily takes an actual person's life, that almost means they did it without control.
If one involuntarily takes an actual person's life, that almost means they did it without control.
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Once more you introduce a bizarre twist.. how do you do that, lol.
Kes was a little creeped out by Tuvix.
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