Comparing 9/11 to Pearl Harbor is pretty insulting, in my opinion. Pearl Harbor was a clean military operation against the US Navy. 9/11 was mass murder of civilians.
Did/Is the media cover 9/11 too much?
- Thread starter Flying Spaghetti Monster
- Start date
I guess we should at least be grateful that these tragedies aren't happening with greater frequency.
Unfortunately, it wasn't clean. The United States and Japan were at peace until the attack took place, and were actively engaged in discussions to prevent war that Japan had initiated. To quote President Roosevelt:
The United States was at peace with [Japan] and, at the solicitation of Japan, was still in conversation with its government and its emperor looking toward the maintenance of peace in the Pacific.
Indeed, one hour after Japanese air squadrons had commenced bombing in the American island of Oahu, the Japanese ambassador to the United States and his colleague delivered to our Secretary of State a formal reply to a recent American message. And while this reply stated that it seemed useless to continue the existing diplomatic negotiations, it contained no threat or hint of war or of armed attack.
It will be recorded that the distance of Hawaii from Japan makes it obvious that the attack was deliberately planned many days or even weeks ago. During the intervening time, the Japanese government has deliberately sought to deceive the United States by false statements and expressions of hope for continued peace.
Certainly, though, what the Japanese did, reprehensible as it was, was far less evil than what al-Qaeda did on September 11.Indeed, one hour after Japanese air squadrons had commenced bombing in the American island of Oahu, the Japanese ambassador to the United States and his colleague delivered to our Secretary of State a formal reply to a recent American message. And while this reply stated that it seemed useless to continue the existing diplomatic negotiations, it contained no threat or hint of war or of armed attack.
It will be recorded that the distance of Hawaii from Japan makes it obvious that the attack was deliberately planned many days or even weeks ago. During the intervening time, the Japanese government has deliberately sought to deceive the United States by false statements and expressions of hope for continued peace.
Oh my, so they deceived their opponent in order to start a perfect surprise attack? So bad. That still fits into my definition of "clean military operation". You don't knock on the door saying "I am going to attack your military troops, is that alright with you?" You want to win the war, not play games. The US "answered" with killing 100,000 civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki in order to win the war. How is that not bad or reprehensible, if you already find Pearl Harbor reprehensible?
I'm still trying to figure out why comparing 9/11 to Pearl Harbor is "insulting". Insulting to whom?
If anything it's about the single most apt comparison a person can make. Both were surprise attacks that resulted in roughly the same amount of deaths and launched the country into war.
If anything it's about the single most apt comparison a person can make. Both were surprise attacks that resulted in roughly the same amount of deaths and launched the country into war.
Personally, I don't find the Nagasaki or Hiroshima attacks reprehensible (horrible, certainly; Sadako Sasaki and others like her certainly did not deserve what happened to them), because of the sheer number of Japanese and American lives that they saved. More Japanese children would certainly have died in a full-scale invasion than died in those two bombings (really, our firebombing campaign against Tokyo was far more reprehensible than the Nagasaki or Hiroshima attacks).
The key points when considering Pearl Harbor, however, is that the two nations were at peace, and that false efforts to avoid war (which were earnest on the part of the United States) were the deception used to screen Japan's intentions. It would be like the U.S. suddenly launching a major missile attack on China tonight; though we are adversaries, every public effort has been directed toward avoiding war.
All may be fair in war, but you must first be at war before everything is fair.
Dear Spaghetti Monster Person
To honestly say that 9/11 was "no big deal" shows a decided lack of understanding and callousness, even selfishness.
So your tv viewing habits are interrupted for a while and that's what you have to complain about? Did you lose anyone in that event that you say is "no big deal"?
Tell that those firefighters and policemen who have been living with this tragedy for a decade now. Everyday talking to someone about it and having to relive the loss and horror. Every single day.
Afterall, they're the ones who dug up the mutilated bodies and had to endure the trauma of the sounds of human beings slamming into the roofs around them as they jumped to their deaths. Not to mention living through the mass murder of their friends and co-workers.
Tell that to the thousands of children who grew up without parents. Everytime they reach a milestone in their lives or have a holiday it's a reminder to them that their loved one isn't there.
Tell that to thousands of families who had to go on. The husbands, the wives, the parents. Lives torn asunder and they had to endure the pain and loss that you call "no big deal".
Tell that to the poor souls who all lost their lives. Lost their lives in a blink of an eye and they didn't even have a clue about what was about to befall them. They weren't soldiers or politicians. Just normal everyday people who paid someone elses debt with their lives.
To remember is to honor. To honor is to value. To honor and value those sacrificed is our duty and responsiblity. Coverage is there for you to pick and choose from. If you're tired of it then watch Spongebob. I hear he has a new season starting soon.
To honestly say that 9/11 was "no big deal" shows a decided lack of understanding and callousness, even selfishness.
So your tv viewing habits are interrupted for a while and that's what you have to complain about? Did you lose anyone in that event that you say is "no big deal"?
Tell that those firefighters and policemen who have been living with this tragedy for a decade now. Everyday talking to someone about it and having to relive the loss and horror. Every single day.
Afterall, they're the ones who dug up the mutilated bodies and had to endure the trauma of the sounds of human beings slamming into the roofs around them as they jumped to their deaths. Not to mention living through the mass murder of their friends and co-workers.
Tell that to the thousands of children who grew up without parents. Everytime they reach a milestone in their lives or have a holiday it's a reminder to them that their loved one isn't there.
Tell that to thousands of families who had to go on. The husbands, the wives, the parents. Lives torn asunder and they had to endure the pain and loss that you call "no big deal".
Tell that to the poor souls who all lost their lives. Lost their lives in a blink of an eye and they didn't even have a clue about what was about to befall them. They weren't soldiers or politicians. Just normal everyday people who paid someone elses debt with their lives.
To remember is to honor. To honor is to value. To honor and value those sacrificed is our duty and responsiblity. Coverage is there for you to pick and choose from. If you're tired of it then watch Spongebob. I hear he has a new season starting soon.
At first I thought you said "cover up" and I thought you were nuts. 
It's WAY overblown. It's insanely overblown. Not that there shouldn't be shows and such about it, but they need to interview everyone and give them their own special?
"I used to walk the dog of a woman whose brother's boyfriend's half step sister's boyfriend's dad's uncle was killed on 9-11". (I made that up for the people who can't notice.)
I mean it's insane.
It's WAY overblown. It's insanely overblown. Not that there shouldn't be shows and such about it, but they need to interview everyone and give them their own special?
"I used to walk the dog of a woman whose brother's boyfriend's half step sister's boyfriend's dad's uncle was killed on 9-11". (I made that up for the people who can't notice.)
I mean it's insane.
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
I don't know. I definitely think there is tremendous value -- both historically and in a more humanistic sense -- to the more personal stories of experience and tragedy which are now more than ever more widely accessible to the general public because of mass media in this day and age.
Having said that, I do agree with the points made by others that it has all become incredibly, tiresomely politicized and that in part grates on me.
Having said that, I do agree with the points made by others that it has all become incredibly, tiresomely politicized and that in part grates on me.
Outside America that's exactly what it was.
You didn't have CNN in Canada in 2001?
It was a distant mass murder televised on live TV. No matter where you were, as long as you weren't in New York City, then it was distant.
#HowGeogrpahyWorks
Canada is pretty much America's little brother, so of course we cared about it here. My point is that saying 9/11 was felt deeply all over the world just because it happened in America (you know, the center of the universe) is pretty damn arrogant. 9/11 was important to America (and to a lesser extent the Western world), but that's it. To the majority of the world it was nothing more than a distant battle, no different than the Syrian Uprising is to us.
I think the point being made was that this was one of the first times, because of the way the global news media works now, that the entire world could witness such a tragedy mere minutes after it happened. It wasn't just a thing that happened in America that other countries would just read about in the next day's paper. It was something they could experience as it was happening.
It had nothing to do with it being an American event.
Bingo. Glad to see people immediately assume the worst though and figure that it's an America=center of the universe argument
Say that to the Canadian forces currently serving in Afghanistan, or to the families of Canadian servicemen killed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Forces_casualties_in_Afghanistan
That's 157 families whose lives have been changed.
Anyone deluded enough to think that 9/11 was simply an "American thing" needs a reality check.
I think it'd be a major event around the developed, western, world that's primarily in good terms with America. Not because America is "the center of the universe" or anything absurd like that but because we live in a global society.
For crying-out-loud, two planes hijacked by militant assholes were flown into two civilian buildings that represented the power of not only America's power and economy but of the global economy. 2000-some innocent civilian lives were erased that day all inside of a couple hours that day by this action.
That's pretty serious, fucking, shit there and hardly a "little thing" that just happened in American and is no bid deal. What else has happened in the developed world in the last 20 years or s that measures up to that?
That's just a human thing to have reaction and emotion to. If something similar had happened to Paris, London, Ontario or anywhere else in the world I would hope that the world-wide outcry would be just as strong.
When hurricanes and earthquakes strike non-American countries the world-wide show of support is very strong. But, what, America gets hit by a damn major terrorist attack and then it becomes "hate America they think they're the center of the universe"? That's fucked up.
And here I'm just speaking of the lives lost at the WTC and the ones in Pennsylvania, as they were the innocent, civilian, lives lost in those attacks. (The attack on the Pentagon was tragic as well, but happened to a military target, but it was no less a tragedy than the other crashes.)
Now the whole world may not have been so rapped up into the media frenzy that was going on that day as here in America the day pretty much stopped but still it's asinine to think that it was no big deal in other places outside of America's shores and borders.
3,000 lives in NYC, Arlington and Pennsylvania were lost that day for no reason whatsoever. Some assholes hijacked some planes and just did it. It made international terrorism that much more front and center showing what incredible lengths terrorists were willing to go to to enforce their agenda. On that day no one was safe. If they wanted to do it to London, to China, to wherever they could have and still might.
Terrorism on that day became bigger and much more of a threat than someone with a bomb-vest in a cafe or a deadly package in the mail.
9/11 was just an American thing?
Bullshit.
It was a world wide thing, America was just the target to use for the terrorists to say "We're fucking serious."
And all of that aside I say again that 3,000 people died that day a great number of them were just every-day Joes arriving to work probably still sipping their coffee and talking about the Monday night football game, then a plane screamed into their office building.
That should send chills up anyone's spine to think about that happening.
If not, you're just not human.
But, hey, it's cool to hate on America. So, why not say that that attack was nothing to consider. Just another day in America with crazy terrorist attacks. Ha, ha ha.
For crying-out-loud, two planes hijacked by militant assholes were flown into two civilian buildings that represented the power of not only America's power and economy but of the global economy. 2000-some innocent civilian lives were erased that day all inside of a couple hours that day by this action.
That's pretty serious, fucking, shit there and hardly a "little thing" that just happened in American and is no bid deal. What else has happened in the developed world in the last 20 years or s that measures up to that?
That's just a human thing to have reaction and emotion to. If something similar had happened to Paris, London, Ontario or anywhere else in the world I would hope that the world-wide outcry would be just as strong.
When hurricanes and earthquakes strike non-American countries the world-wide show of support is very strong. But, what, America gets hit by a damn major terrorist attack and then it becomes "hate America they think they're the center of the universe"? That's fucked up.
And here I'm just speaking of the lives lost at the WTC and the ones in Pennsylvania, as they were the innocent, civilian, lives lost in those attacks. (The attack on the Pentagon was tragic as well, but happened to a military target, but it was no less a tragedy than the other crashes.)
Now the whole world may not have been so rapped up into the media frenzy that was going on that day as here in America the day pretty much stopped but still it's asinine to think that it was no big deal in other places outside of America's shores and borders.
3,000 lives in NYC, Arlington and Pennsylvania were lost that day for no reason whatsoever. Some assholes hijacked some planes and just did it. It made international terrorism that much more front and center showing what incredible lengths terrorists were willing to go to to enforce their agenda. On that day no one was safe. If they wanted to do it to London, to China, to wherever they could have and still might.
Terrorism on that day became bigger and much more of a threat than someone with a bomb-vest in a cafe or a deadly package in the mail.
9/11 was just an American thing?
Bullshit.
It was a world wide thing, America was just the target to use for the terrorists to say "We're fucking serious."
And all of that aside I say again that 3,000 people died that day a great number of them were just every-day Joes arriving to work probably still sipping their coffee and talking about the Monday night football game, then a plane screamed into their office building.
That should send chills up anyone's spine to think about that happening.
If not, you're just not human.
But, hey, it's cool to hate on America. So, why not say that that attack was nothing to consider. Just another day in America with crazy terrorist attacks. Ha, ha ha.
^ Nobody said it was "a little thing", so you might spare us the rhetoric and the righteous indignation. Kelthaz suggested that, while 9/11 had obviously a tremendous impact in the US, and was deeply felt in all Western countries for their close relationship with the US, and the cold-blooded, horrific way it was carried out by a relatively small terrorist organization, it wasn't necessarily the same for the rest of the world. Poignantly, why should a Chinese worker care about 9/11 more than the Average Joe cares about the Syrian uprising (about 3,000 victims so far), except for a degree of sadness about the loss of human lives?
To put thing is perspective: about 316,000 people died last year due to the Haiti earthquake; about 230,000 people died in 2004 due to the Boxing Day tsunami; about 25,000 people die every day of hunger or hunger-related causes. How many weeks of media exposure are these events entitled every year? I'll answer for you: a few minutes during a newscast. That's it.
It's not about "hating on America": it's about having a reasonable perspective. But hey, feel free to scream at the face of anyone who dares to suggest that 9/11 was just another (horrible, gut-wrenching, blood-curling) event in the history of the world. Bush would be proud of you.
To put thing is perspective: about 316,000 people died last year due to the Haiti earthquake; about 230,000 people died in 2004 due to the Boxing Day tsunami; about 25,000 people die every day of hunger or hunger-related causes. How many weeks of media exposure are these events entitled every year? I'll answer for you: a few minutes during a newscast. That's it.
It's not about "hating on America": it's about having a reasonable perspective. But hey, feel free to scream at the face of anyone who dares to suggest that 9/11 was just another (horrible, gut-wrenching, blood-curling) event in the history of the world. Bush would be proud of you.
I recall both the tsunami and the Haiti earthquake getting quite a bit of coverage in the U.S.
As for people dying over the course of a year due to hunger. That's a straw man argument as it's pretty hard to make a noteworthy mention of something happening over the course of the year.
It could also be noted, horrific as they are, the earthquake and tsunami were both natural disasters.
The attacks on the WTC was an attack carried out for political motivations.
As for people dying over the course of a year due to hunger. That's a straw man argument as it's pretty hard to make a noteworthy mention of something happening over the course of the year.
It could also be noted, horrific as they are, the earthquake and tsunami were both natural disasters.
The attacks on the WTC was an attack carried out for political motivations.
Similar threads
