Did Commander Kruge have Permission?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Rayleo02, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. Rayleo02

    Rayleo02 Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2017
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    Did the Klingon government have any knowlage about what Kruge was doing, destroying the USS Grissom and killing Federation citizens? I mean his actions could have started a war.
     
  2. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    It's somewhat implied in the movie that he at least implicitly doesn't have authorization. I can't remember whether the novels have anything to say on the matter, though I want to say Kruge is painted as a bit of a rogue.

    Of course, in TVH the ambassador defends Kruge's actions, which would seem to be at least a belated level of authorization for what he did, though I'm not a politics expert.
     
    Lance likes this.
  3. FormerLurker

    FormerLurker Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    The ambassador defending Kruge's actions was pure politics, and the ambassador knew it. That's why he was so vociferous about defending them. Kruge was in Federation space, had destroyed Federation ships, including a Starfleet vessel, and killed Federation citizens, while in Federation space. Those are acts of war, and Kruge not only did them willingly, but deliberately. The ambassador painting Kirk as the villain was just about the only way he could get away with admitting Kruge had done those things, and not become the Federation's first POW.
     
    cgervasi and Lance like this.
  4. Rayleo02

    Rayleo02 Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2017
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    Did the Federation demand any reparations for the death of David Marcus and the kidnapping Of LT Saavik (Not to mention the distruction of the Grissom.)
     
  5. STEPhon IT

    STEPhon IT Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2010
    Location:
    Sunny California
    So, in other words, they acted like Klingons.
     
  6. Turd Ferguson

    Turd Ferguson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2003
    Location:
    Kentucky
    "Share this with no one. We are going to this planet. Even as our emissaries negotiate for peace with the Federation, we will act for the preservation of our race! We will seize the secret of this weapon. The secret of ultimate power!" -Commander Kruge

    Sounds like he didn't give two shits about getting authorization from his government
     
    arch101, Longinus and I Am Kirok like this.
  7. grendelsbayne

    grendelsbayne Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2013
    Location:
    Netherlands
    As, I expect, most Klingons wouldn't. Especially in that time period.

    In general, Klingon commanders have two settings: just following orders and glory hound and they tend to prefer the 2nd whenever they can get away with it (which is most of the time, as long as they're succesful enough to warrant having songs sung of their deeds).
     
  8. David Luiz Fan

    David Luiz Fan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Location:
    Kilana2
    The Prey novels by J.J. Miller explore Kruge's past..... I'm still busy with book 1. If someone is interested in learning more about Kruge these novels are recommendable.
     
  9. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Location:
    Dahar Master final exams
    There was once this notion in fanon that Klingon ships acted more as privateers. Kruge would fit with that concept.

    Kor
     
  10. Ricky Spanish

    Ricky Spanish Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    BillJ
    Kruge likely had backers within the Empire. Silent partners.
     
    Allyn Gibson likes this.
  11. Manchester

    Manchester Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2018
    Captain Klaa seemed to be in the second group. He was bored with shooting space garbage and needed a real challenge. Later he says that "the attack on your vessel was not authorized by my government" or something like that.
     
  12. WarpFactorZ

    WarpFactorZ Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2013
    Location:
    Configuring the Ontarian Manifold
    Not necessarily. It's very likely he was acting on top secret orders from certain higher-ups who disagreed with the "emissaries" negotiating for peace. His comment "Share this with no one" could imply that he's letting them in on the plan.
     
    Ricky Spanish likes this.
  13. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Location:
    Dahar Master final exams
    No doubt a remnant of the splintered, competing, incohesive Klingon council as depicted in STDsc.

    Kor
     
  14. Tomalak

    Tomalak Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2003
    Location:
    Manchester
    Kruge wanted "the secret of ultimate power". If he'd got hold of Genesis I have no doubt his intention was to hold Qo'nos to ransom and stage a coup.
     
  15. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Location:
    The Enterprise's Restroom
    My take has always been that Kruge and his crew are acting unilaterally, as perhaps many Klingon ship commanders do, and also that perhaps his motives are actually quite benign: he wants the secret of genesis because he truly believes it's a weapon that the Federation has developed. Chancing upon information that the other 'bloc' has a bigger and better nuke, he essentially wants the glory of being able to be the saviour of the empire, as well as stopping his people's sworn enemy into the bargain....
     
  16. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    I mean...intentions aside, Genesis essentially was a WMD if one chose to use it in that manner.
     
    cgervasi likes this.
  17. bolak

    bolak Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2014
    One of the early scripts for TSFS had a group of Klingon ships searching for Kruge. He decloaked amongst them in his stolen Romulan BoP and wiped them out before warping away. Per the Making of STIII video that was on YouTube.

    So he does seem to have been a renegade.

    It would have been interesting to reinsert the back-story later in the film, in orbit of Genesis; perhaps Kirk quipping that both captains had stolen ships to get there and that both were fugitives from their governments.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
  18. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    Given how their conversation progressed I feel like humor might have been out of place...unless it started out that way and then Kruge dropped the hammer.
     
  19. Kor

    Kor Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Location:
    Dahar Master final exams
    Kruge's lines of "Yes, exhilarating, isn't it" and "Perfect, then that's the way it shall be" seemed kind of like mocking/humorous quips.

    Kor
     
  20. Marsden

    Marsden Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2013
    Location:
    Thulcandra
    I think Kruge was like the Mission Impossible team, they sent him but there was total deniability on the part of the government. The part with his girlfriend on the freighter really seems to reinforce that. They may not have even wanted to let any of the general Klingon population in on this, it's a very secret thing. Imagine the outrage in Klingon space if they knew the Federation had this torpedo that could wipe out a whole planet and they didn't, it could cause a coup and collapse the Klingon Empire.