Did Bakula drag down IAMD?

[Shatnertage]

I just rewatched IAMD, and one thing stands out--Scott Bakula's just not that effective at portraying the mirror Jonathan Archer.

It's not that I'm not a fan of Bakula's work in general, and I don't want to turn this into a bash Bakula/Archer thread, but I felt he kind of missed the mark in this one. He was stomping and scowling like he had a really painful slipped disc in his back, not like he was evil and conniving.

I get that the episode is about mirror Archer's failures as a leader--one touch that I liked was the way he was sitting in the captain's chair with his fists balled up over his eyes like a scared little kid right before Trip restored power on the Defiant. It's just that it's hard for me to buy him as evil.

Dominic Keating, on the other hand, did a great job. He really does seem sinister and sadistic. Ditto for John Billingsley. Linda Park absolutely stole the show. Bakula, though, just stomped around. Even in that scene where he and Park are in silhouette, the way he moves around looks goofy.

Anyone else think so?

 

[Mach5]

No, I think Bakula really shined in this one. I enjoyed his performance quite a bit.

 

[star]

Personally, I loved the scene in the Brig where Archer slams Forrest into the walls.

I thought he did a great job portraying a leader whose ambition far exceeded his abilities.

I will agree, though, that Malcolm is fantastic. He's so bad, it's good.

 

[Hopeful Romantic]

The way I saw it, MU Archer wasn't great at anything-- even being eeeevil. He was like Salieri-- a King Of The Universe-wannabe. He didn't have the smarts, and was too emotional, and he stomped around like a kid who sees what he wants, but can't have it.

While Hoshi, Malcolm, and Phlox displayed profoundly skewed moral compasses and that casual, sociopathic disregard for others that makes me think "evil," it didn't seem natural for Archer. He chafed at being a subordinate, he exulted when he got hold of power (however fleetingly), but he didn't have that cold-hearted core. I didn't think Forrest was eeeeevil either, just a demanding leader who did what was necessary when he had to.

In other words, I thought Bakula's interpretation was fascinating, and it worked just fine for me.

 

[6079SmithW]

IMHO, crazy Archer MADE the show. Instead of just being pure evil he is an incompetent, bumbling fool. A non-name in the empire who goes nuts once he realizes he will never achieve what his counter part has in our universe. There were a few times when he was a badass but I suspect he was just using it as an external mask to cover up his cowardice. He was probably incompetent in the bedroom too and Hoshi was just faking it. Ha!

So I thought Bakula did a great job here and effectively sold the episodes.

 

[Shatnertage]

^^^I thought Forrest staying on the bridge and "buying you some time" while his crew evacuated was very un-mirrorish and quite noble. Also, it presages George Kirk's sacrifice in ST09.

Did Hoshi kill Archer in the end, or just incapacitate him?

 

[6079SmithW]

^ Agree. Forrest was the oddball out as far as evil MU characters go. Archer was much more mirrorish then him cause he was completely selfish. No noble sacrifices from him.
It is my understanding that Hoshi killed Archer with a poisoned glass of wine. She got rid of the competition by assassination, a very mirrorish thing.

 

[AMQ]

The way I saw it, MU Archer wasn't great at anything-- even being eeeevil. He was like Salieri-- a King Of The Universe-wannabe. He didn't have the smarts, and was too emotional, and he stomped around like a kid who sees what he wants, but can't have it.

In other words, I thought Bakula's interpretation was fascinating, and it worked just fine for me.

IMHO, crazy Archer MADE the show. Instead of just being pure evil he is an incompetent, bumbling fool. A non-name in the empire who goes nuts once he realizes he will never achieve what his counter part has in our universe. There were a few times when he was a badass but I suspect he was just using it as an external mask to cover up his cowardice. He was probably incompetent in the bedroom too and Hoshi was just faking it. Ha!

So I thought Bakula did a great job here and effectively sold the episodes.

Agreed. He wasn't supposed to be good Jonathan Archer but only evil-childlike-wannabe the leader and have all the power. He wasn't really smart and I think that all he did was because Hoshi told him to do, all from the very beginning.
He never thinks before he acts and solves everything with pure aggressiveness. If he doesn't agree with, like or need someone he simply kills him. So annoying
He was supposed to be the evil jerk and IMO Scott Bakula did fascinating job.

 

[JiNX-01]

The way I saw it, MU Archer wasn't great at anything-- even being eeeevil. He was like Salieri-- a King Of The Universe-wannabe. He didn't have the smarts, and was too emotional, and he stomped around like a kid who sees what he wants, but can't have it.

While Hoshi, Malcolm, and Phlox displayed profoundly skewed moral compasses and that casual, sociopathic disregard for others that makes me think "evil," it didn't seem natural for Archer. He chafed at being a subordinate, he exulted when he got hold of power (however fleetingly), but he didn't have that cold-hearted core. I didn't think Forrest was eeeeevil either, just a demanding leader who did what was necessary when he had to.

In other words, I thought Bakula's interpretation was fascinating, and it worked just fine for me.

I agree. He was in way over his head, so all he could do is throw tantrums. The one moment when he actually struck me as evil -- and this could be my pro-Trip bias -- was when he told Reed to break Tucker in the agony booth.

 

[star]

I agree. He was in way over his head, so all he could do is throw tantrums. The one moment when he actually struck me as evil -- and this could be my pro-Trip bias -- was when he told Reed to break Tucker in the agony booth.

I might have the same bias... but definitely agree with that.

Really, Archer was like a petulant teenager whose dad just told him he couldn't have the keys to the car. His real universe counterpart is like the big brother he can't live up to but is always compared to.

His insanity was fantastic.

And I think Hoshi killed him. What reason does she have to keep him around?

Speaking of Hoshi... I think her early scene with Forrest is quite telling. I see a woman that became bitter for having the life she wanted stolen from her, so she does what she can to exact her revenge. First, Archer for taking Forrest from her (by leading them into the trap) and secondly the Empire who hasn't effectively handled the war with the rebels so she could retire from Starfleet and do what she really wants.

I haven't read "Glass Empires"... but I despise reading in fanfic where Hoshi is nearly as bubble-headed and stupid as Archer. I think she's probably the most intelligent and cunning person on the crew.

Phlox is disturbing (and that's saying a lot coming from me!)

Reed is also sociopathic, but I find him somewhat endearing nonetheless.

 

[Shatnertage]

Reed (or Keating's interpretation) still had that child-like joy at seeing things go boom. Watch him the split-second after the Enterprise gets blown up by the Tholians--he's just lost dozens of colleagues, and might be killed himself, but he can't suppress that grin as he watches it blow up. It's something that's present in "real" Reed, taken to a sadistic extreme.

And that one shot of Phlox gleefully performing a vivisection on a living animal in his lab is so disturbing...even moreso than his torture of the Tholian or prisoners in the Agony Booth, since you could rationalize that he "needed" to do it to get useful information. With the lab animal, he's just causing it pain because it's fun.

 

[star]

Reed (or Keating's interpretation) still had that child-like joy at seeing things go boom. Watch him the split-second after the Enterprise gets blown up by the Tholians--he's just lost dozens of colleagues, and might be killed himself, but he can't suppress that grin as he watches it blow up. It's something that's present in "real" Reed, taken to a sadistic extreme.

Oh, I love that moment. Brilliant Evil!Reed scene.

 

[Kelso]

Did he drag it down... or did it drag him down? Or were they in cahoots the whole time?

Terrible performance in a terrible set of episodes

 

[Reanok]

Glass Empires is a nice followup to IAMD.I thought Bakula did a good job portraying a dangerous Archer who was mad for power and was going to take command of the Enterprise anyway he could.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

I thought Bakula did fine. Mirror Archer really seemed to be a psychotic personality more than simply Evul.

 

[Saul]

I think compared to other Mirror Universe episodes the cast may have overdone it a bit but I think being the kind of story it is it was one of those episodes they could have fun with.

 

[JiNX-01]

I agree. He was in way over his head, so all he could do is throw tantrums. The one moment when he actually struck me as evil -- and this could be my pro-Trip bias -- was when he told Reed to break Tucker in the agony booth.

I might have the same bias... but definitely agree with that.

Really, Archer was like a petulant teenager whose dad just told him he couldn't have the keys to the car. His real universe counterpart is like the big brother he can't live up to but is always compared to.

His insanity was fantastic.

And I think Hoshi killed him. What reason does she have to keep him around?

Speaking of Hoshi... I think her early scene with Forrest is quite telling. I see a woman that became bitter for having the life she wanted stolen from her, so she does what she can to exact her revenge. First, Archer for taking Forrest from her (by leading them into the trap) and secondly the Empire who hasn't effectively handled the war with the rebels so she could retire from Starfleet and do what she really wants.

I haven't read "Glass Empires"... but I despise reading in fanfic where Hoshi is nearly as bubble-headed and stupid as Archer. I think she's probably the most intelligent and cunning person on the crew.

Phlox is disturbing (and that's saying a lot coming from me!)

Reed is also sociopathic, but I find him somewhat endearing nonetheless.

Since they were planning more MU episodes if they had gotten a Season 5, I suspect Hoshi just knocked Archer out so she could get to the bridge to lay claim to the throne.

Archer would probably awaken in the brig where Empress Sato would come to taunt him. I think she actually cared about Forrest and was really ticked off when Archer tossed him in the brig. I also think she blamed Archer for Forrest's death.

 

[Admiral Shran]

I thought Bakula did fine. Mirror Archer really seemed to be a psychotic personality more than simply Evul.

This. The whole point wasn't to show an Evil version of Jonathan Archer, but a pysychotic and completely incompetent one.

^^^I thought Forrest staying on the bridge and "buying you some time" while his crew evacuated was very un-mirrorish and quite noble. Also, it presages George Kirk's sacrifice in ST09.

This doesn't bother me. The point of the Mirror Universe isn't that everyone is "pure evil," just that they're somehow different from their "normal" counterparts and have skewed moral compasses.

In Mirror, Mirror, Spock, while still an a more evil version of Normal Spock, was still an honorable man. Also, the Mirror Halkans were virtually identical to the Normal Halkans.

Even in the DS9 Mirror Universe episodes (which some people - not me - think were ridiculous) the mirror versions could be honorable people. Just look at Mirror O'Brien, or Mirror Rom, or Mirror Brunt. If fact, I think the biggest mistake DS9 made with the Mirror Universe was not showing us Mirror Dukat - a man who was honorable and good in an evil universe while Normal Dukat was an evil man in a normal universe.

 

[star]

Since they were planning more MU episodes if they had gotten a Season 5, I suspect Hoshi just knocked Archer out so she could get to the bridge to lay claim to the throne.

Archer would probably awaken in the brig where Empress Sato would come to taunt him. I think she actually cared about Forrest and was really ticked off when Archer tossed him in the brig. I also think she blamed Archer for Forrest's death.

Probably true... but seeing how it didn't happen, I just assume that Archer died. Oh and I absolutely agree with you about Hoshi and her feelings for Forrest and Archer.

Personally, my one disappointment with the Mirror Universe episodes was Soval.

Yeah, yeah, I totally get that he's "opposite"... so therefore not a pompous, self-important cantankerous old Vulcan. I guess I just wanted to see a soldier Soval or something. *sigh*

 

[I am Surak]

Yeah, yeah, I totally get that he's "opposite"... so therefore not a pompous, self-important cantankerous old Vulcan.

I - Surak - will notify the Vulcan High Command to inform Soval about what is being said on this board about him.
He will not be pleased to be called "old".