Well, I've always wanted to be a professor. This sounds like a good way to get started.
Hey, our first student!
DeVry University
- Thread starter Luminus
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Well, I've always wanted to be a professor. This sounds like a good way to get started.
Hey, our first student!
Thread title (and some of its content) reminds me of a Family Guy quote that always makes me LoL.
Guy 1: You know, my son got into DeVry.
Guy 2: What'd he have to do, open the door?
Guy 1: You know, my son got into DeVry.
Guy 2: What'd he have to do, open the door?
Probably been the case for a couple of decades, now.
The way I see it, it really depends. The article also mentioned the alum who sued her university because she couldn't find a job after graduation.
If a college graduate can't find the job he/she wants, it's not the school's fault. Blame it on the economy, where the person lives, or what he/she majored in, etc. It would be safe to move to a much more progressive place, or at least start at an entry-level job.
I meant more that to get a good paying job, your minimum education is no longer just having a high school diploma like it used to be but a college degree now. And it has been that way for roughly a decade at least. It doesn't mean you can't get a job or even a good paying one but it does make it much easier and the thing most employers are wanting.
But then you'll eventually need a higher level of college education too as more and more people get a degree to earn a better living and the value of a degree goes down. It used to be a high school diploma was unnecessary and obviously back through the ages education itself was less important than how physically fit you were and capable of following directions. I'm just glad it's not to the point you need a masters or phD just to get an entry level job.
But then you'll eventually need a higher level of college education too as more and more people get a degree to earn a better living and the value of a degree goes down. It used to be a high school diploma was unnecessary and obviously back through the ages education itself was less important than how physically fit you were and capable of following directions. I'm just glad it's not to the point you need a masters or phD just to get an entry level job.
I see a day-- and we're sort of there now-- where you're going to spend nearly you're whole life, or at least you're working life, in school or [re]training of some type just to get a job or hold on to the one you've got. Well at least a job that pays a living wage-- fastfood joints and retail cahsiers/stockers/baggers will always be on the shit end of the scale and get shit pay as a result.I meant more that to get a good paying job, your minimum education is no longer just having a high school diploma like it used to be but a college degree now. And it has been that way for roughly a decade at least. It doesn't mean you can't get a job or even a good paying one but it does make it much easier and the thing most employers are wanting.
But then you'll eventually need a higher level of college education too as more and more people get a degree to earn a better living and the value of a degree goes down. It used to be a high school diploma was unnecessary and obviously back through the ages education itself was less important than how physically fit you were and capable of following directions. I'm just glad it's not to the point you need a masters or phD just to get an entry level job.
In the private sector anyway, it seems some employers are now demanding at least an associate's degree for an applicant to be qualified for a job. Really? As a mail clerk or an office assistant? I think a high-school diploma would suffice for such positions. As long as a person can read, write coherently, and do basic math, that's all the "education" needed for most entry-level jobs (in addition to other job skills, of course).
I'm a civil service employee, and my understanding is that Federal, State, county or municipal agencies require at least a high-school diploma or equivalent for non-professional jobs. Sure, if you're going to work as a social worker, an engineer, or a programmer, then you'll need at least a bachelor's degree. My employer is very generous in encouraging people to go back to school or get advance degrees, as we have a tuition reimbursement program here at work. The irony is that Employee 1, who's a "Water Distribution Plumber III" and didn't attend college and only has a certificate, makes more money than Employee 2, an "Executive Assistant" who completed her master's degree years ago.
I'm a civil service employee, and my understanding is that Federal, State, county or municipal agencies require at least a high-school diploma or equivalent for non-professional jobs. Sure, if you're going to work as a social worker, an engineer, or a programmer, then you'll need at least a bachelor's degree. My employer is very generous in encouraging people to go back to school or get advance degrees, as we have a tuition reimbursement program here at work. The irony is that Employee 1, who's a "Water Distribution Plumber III" and didn't attend college and only has a certificate, makes more money than Employee 2, an "Executive Assistant" who completed her master's degree years ago.
I am enrolled in Financial Accounting this semester, and yesterday the instructor informed us to study our notes, the slides, and our textbook in preparation for the test on Monday. Genius boy pipes up, "What do we use to study? Did you say just the slides?"
The office job (entry level) market's just hell on Earth right now if you've been out of school more than 4 or 5 years. The last time I set foot in a classroom was 14 years ago (when I got certified to train people in MS Office products and as MOUS, and my web certifications). And just looking for a entry level data entry or secretarial job, I get told I"m too out of date. One place was surprised that I knew what OpenOffice was and that I use it regularly and know what the hell I'm doing with it.
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Amaris
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In the private sector anyway, it seems some employers are now demanding at least an associate's degree for an applicant to be qualified for a job. Really? As a mail clerk or an office assistant? I think a high-school diploma would suffice for such positions. As long as a person can read, write coherently, and do basic math, that's all the "education" needed for most entry-level jobs (in addition to other job skills, of course).
I'm a civil service employee, and my understanding is that Federal, State, county or municipal agencies require at least a high-school diploma or equivalent for non-professional jobs. Sure, if you're going to work as a social worker, an engineer, or a programmer, then you'll need at least a bachelor's degree. My employer is very generous in encouraging people to go back to school or get advance degrees, as we have a tuition reimbursement program here at work. The irony is that Employee 1, who's a "Water Distribution Plumber III" and didn't attend college and only has a certificate, makes more money than Employee 2, an "Executive Assistant" who completed her master's degree years ago.
Bingo. Around here, most jobs want at least an Associates Degree for simple jobs like data entry. It's silly.
Nah, not silly. It's not that they think you NEED the degree to actually do the job; it's just a way of reducing the number of applicants down to a manageable number to then shortlist. Otherwise, they'd be swamped with applicants.
This is known as "grad school."
I wouldn't go to a University that does commericals on TV seems kind of....... You can't get a management position in a store unless you have a four year degree. I know all of Home Depot department Managers must have a college degree. That what I heard from a friend, she works there as a Supervisor. Factory jobs, Manpower, IBM jobs paying 15-20 bucks an hour are gone. I'm going to college and I'm seeing quite a few grey hairs attending classes. They are in class everyday with their homework completed and their hands up ready to answer a question. Sometimes they beat me to it. I'm 23 years old and I'm beating all these 18, 19 year old punks in History class.
That sounds self-defeating if that's really the case. Then why bother to post a job vacancy in the first place if the employer doesn't want to get "swamped" with applications? I find that rather laughable. Isn't that part of the whole recruitment process? (I'm not saying I'm deriding your post, Holdfast, but rather questioning the method of such employers.)
Setting high or unrealistic expectations for a rather low-profile position for the mere purpose of controlling the number of applicants is ludicrous and pointless. It's like saying, "Oh, yeah, we have a vacancy in our mail room, but right now we're looking for someone with a Ph.D. in Physics or an IQ of 140 or above." Most people are level-headed and know well enough not to apply for jobs for which they don't qualify. Second, as bad as the state of the economy is, it's not like employers are going to get "tens of thousands" of applications for a position like Mail Messenger, Data Entry Operator, or File Clerk. Third, further skills assessment in the form of written tests, computer or practical exams, etc. is sometimes given in addition to the interview and background testing.
If prospective employers set the hiring standards a bit too high, then I fear unemployment will continue to rise, seeing as Johnny Redneck couldn't even get a job at 7-11 or the local gas station.
I know enough HR folks to know it's why they do it.
You DO get swamped with applications for entry-level/low-skill jobs, esp. for big corporation and government jobs. I'm talking applicant/job ratios of hundreds to one for some positions. That's impossible for HR to wade through and shortlist and most of those applicants will be morons. Raise a bar a bit, by requiring experience, or qualifications, and the signal-to-noise ratio improves significantly. Shortlisting becomes more effective and the eventual hire is likely to be a better fit. They don't raise the bar too much (largely because you DON'T want someone too qualified in an entry/low position, because they'll leave in a few months), but just enough to reduce the applicant/job ratio to a manageable level. But as more and more people go to university and pick up degrees/diplomas of one sort or another, the bar incrementally ratchets up.
This logic applies more to white collar entry level jobs. I don't know enough about blue collar jobs to know whether they use this process. But J/Axiom was talking about data entry type jobs, and it certainly applies there, esp. in larger companies/public sector jobs.
You DO get swamped with applications for entry-level/low-skill jobs, esp. for big corporation and government jobs. I'm talking applicant/job ratios of hundreds to one for some positions. That's impossible for HR to wade through and shortlist and most of those applicants will be morons. Raise a bar a bit, by requiring experience, or qualifications, and the signal-to-noise ratio improves significantly. Shortlisting becomes more effective and the eventual hire is likely to be a better fit. They don't raise the bar too much (largely because you DON'T want someone too qualified in an entry/low position, because they'll leave in a few months), but just enough to reduce the applicant/job ratio to a manageable level. But as more and more people go to university and pick up degrees/diplomas of one sort or another, the bar incrementally ratchets up.
This logic applies more to white collar entry level jobs. I don't know enough about blue collar jobs to know whether they use this process. But J/Axiom was talking about data entry type jobs, and it certainly applies there, esp. in larger companies/public sector jobs.
Holdfast hit the nail on the head. I work in HR, and this is pretty much exactly what goes on.
Oh, I've worked in HR and with HR before. Consider the U.S.P.S. as one of the largest employers and a government agency at that. They get shitloads of applications every year especially during the holidays that HR has to wade through, but they've never required a college degree for something like a clerical job.
Same goes for my current employer. The recruitment section gets tons of applications they have to wade through, even if there's only a single clerical vacancy in the whole company. Granted, people have to pass written exams to get on an eligibility list, score well on an interview panel, jump through the hoops. One thing my employer doesn't do is post false or misleading information for the public in an attempt to manage paperwork.
Same goes for my current employer. The recruitment section gets tons of applications they have to wade through, even if there's only a single clerical vacancy in the whole company. Granted, people have to pass written exams to get on an eligibility list, score well on an interview panel, jump through the hoops. One thing my employer doesn't do is post false or misleading information for the public in an attempt to manage paperwork.
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