Spoilers Destiny: Lost Souls by David Mack Review Thread

[Silversmok3]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

What should be established is whether the Borg could be created in the Mirror Universe.

Since the Borgs creation in our plane required a series of unfortunate events initiated by both chance and the personal decisions of several people (of which some will likely be dead in the MU),its nigh-impossible that the Borg could be created in the MU the same chance/convoluted way they were spawned here.

This brings me to my next hypothesis:
Isin't it more likely,then ,that the Borg in the Mirror Universe crossed over from our side ?
All it would take is one cube shunted into the MU by chance,and the rest would be history.

 

[William Leisner]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

Post deleted in favor of David's response below.

 

[David Mack]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

Question for David Mack: How/why did you choose the planets/species the Borg annihilated?

I based my account of the destruction of systems and planets on a circular expansion away from the center of the Azure Nebula, as depicted in Geoffrey Mandel's reference book Star Trek: Star Charts.

I'm guessing people over at Paramount also had to okay the choices, but how do they decide too? And who are they? ...They must be trekkies also or they wouldn't know a Vorta from a Horta.

The licensing approvals for Star Trek currently rest with CBS Televison. However, it has been the same two people serving as the arbiters for the past several years, despite the changes in corporate letterhead: Paula M. Block and John Van Citters. And yes, they are both extremely knowledgeable about Star Trek. Their input and advice is almost always spot-on and very valuable, at least in my experience.

^On that same note, how was the decision to kill off certain characters (Owen Paris, Charivretha, T'Lana, ect) made?

I wanted to depict the consequences of the Borg invasion by showing the tragic fates of minor characters previously established either on screen or prominently in the novels. Whenever possible, I tried to select characters who had strong emotional connections to our ongoing series' principal cast. That is why we see Shar's mom, Tuvok's son, Paris's father, a former Enterprise officer, and starship crews and officers from my previous Star Trek novels set during this late 24th-century time period.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

Question for David Mack: How/why did you choose the planets/species the Borg annihilated?

I based my account of the destruction of systems and planets on a circular expansion away from the center of the Azure Nebula, as depicted in Geoffrey Mandel's reference book Star Trek: Star Charts.

Which, admittedly, is imperfect, since that's a 2-D projection of 3-D star positions. For instance, in the map, Acamar and Barolia (the first two systems hit in the invasion) look very close together, but they're actually a hundred light-years apart. But that's okay, since it stands to reason that the Borg's invasion strategy would've been a little more complex than just expanding in a sphere.

 

[RonG]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

well, I finished the book last night (it's almost 09:00 AM here), and I wanted to think a little about I'd read.. contemplate what I thought of the book in particular and of the trilogy in general.

Mr. Mack, thank you.

Thank you for the greatest Trek epic EVER (IMO, of course).

From the suspense and action to the character moments (both larger than life and intimate), from the sheer hopelessness of the situation (I really thought before starting Gods of Night that Earth and\or the UFP are done for) to the poignant conclusion so true to the spirit of Star Trek, this entire trilogy (and every book in itself) are a Trek masterpiece and the magnum opus which sets the bar for all TrekLit..

10/10

 

[BillJ]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

What should be established is whether the Borg could be created in the Mirror Universe.

Since the Borgs creation in our plane required a series of unfortunate events initiated by both chance and the personal decisions of several people (of which some will likely be dead in the MU),its nigh-impossible that the Borg could be created in the MU the same chance/convoluted way they were spawned here.

This brings me to my next hypothesis:
Isin't it more likely,then ,that the Borg in the Mirror Universe crossed over from our side ?
All it would take is one cube shunted into the MU by chance,and the rest would be history.

Please don't give them ideas' for more Borg stories... I think I've had all I can stomach.

 

[Rat Boy]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

Well, I started with Book One on Wednesday and finished Book Three about an hour ago. Aside from tension in my neck and my eyesight going to crap, I must say that this was quite the experience the whole way through. I'll go into more depth later, but I just wanted to say that this was perhaps the pinnacle of over a decade of Trek Lit and if this doesn't deserve to form the basis of a swansong film for the characters of the 24th Century, it'd make one hell of a mini-series on television.

Quick question, though: there was one little plot point I thought was going to be expanded upon but wasn't addressed unless I skimmed over it. Why did the Queen call Hernandez Logos of Borg? Heck, why did she name Picard Locutus in the first place? I thought there'd be something there that would explain it, that perhaps they were Caeliar names that the Collective half-remembered.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

"Locutus" is basically Latin for "He Who Has Spoken." Picard was assimilated to be a spokesman for the Collective, and his name was based on that. (Well, actually it means more like "he who was talking just now." But that's close enough.)

"Logos" is a Greek term meaning a word, a concept, a principle, an explanation -- it's a very complex term. In the Biblical "In the Beginning was the Word," "the Word" is only a rough translation of Logos, the term used in the original Gospel. It means both the expression of a concept and the concept itself, both a word and its meaning -- "And the Word became flesh." Dave could explain better, but I'd guess that the Queen called her Logos because she was "the one we have waited for" -- the being that would give the Borg not only a new voice but new meaning.

Why are these names in Latin and Greek? Because it's Star Trek and aliens always seem to speak Latin or Greek. Or maybe because the Queen was coining these terms for human listeners, or maybe because the Borg descend from a human origin anyway.

That's one great thing about the Borg origin revealed here. It never made sense to me that a race of alien cyborgs would call themselves a name that's clearly derived from the English word "cyborg." But if they started out human, it makes a lot more sense.

 

[Allyn Gibson]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

Intriguing. After nearly twenty years, I had no idea that "Locutus" meant something. I just assumed it was some sort of nonsense.

Of course, that had me curious about the Ferengi that the Borg renamed Vastator in Vendetta. I don't know if I can trust online translators, but "Vastator" apparently means "Destroyer."

 

[Christopher]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

^^I guess going to a high school that teaches mandatory Latin classes affects the way you hear and think about language. To me, the first thing I'd notice about a name like "Locutus" is its similarity to "locution," "elocution," "interlocutor," etc. It's got a definite vibe of "Speaker." I'm actually surprised that anyone could hear the name and not notice the similarity. But I guess taking Latin trains you to think about how the parts of different words are related to each other, rather than just hearing each word in isolation.

 

[BryanSorensen]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

I must add my comments finally on this book, and will go to other threads of the other two. I got them all on wed. afternoon and just finished Lost Souls 2 hours ago, so this is all still fresh for me. I have to say the series was simply stunning. Lost Souls was great for several reasons, most have been covered by others in this thread so i wont go on and make it all repetitive. I truely felt sorry for all of those humans from the Columbia that survived on that arctic island, but at the same time, the actual origin of the borg was fantastic. I had a feeling early on in the first book that they had SOME connection to them. I cannot wait till A Singular Destiny comes out in feb. definately getting that. I hope Full Circle goes in more detail about Voyagers roll during and after the fight. Also, i dont really remember seeing this but did any one else feel like the ds9 guys got the shaft in this one? really not even a mention on how ds9 was handling this, and where was the Defiant in all the fighting? it shoulda kicked some serious ass against the Borg; well at least i think it would have.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Also, i dont really remember seeing this but did any one else feel like the ds9 guys got the shaft in this one? really not even a mention on how ds9 was handling this, and where was the Defiant in all the fighting? it shoulda kicked some serious ass against the Borg; well at least i think it would have.

The DS9 novel line is still set four years before Destiny. Leaving most of the DS9 cast out of the action was necessary to avoid spoiling plot developments in the DS9 novels. It would've "shafted" them more to spoil years' worth of stories yet to be told.

 

[BryanSorensen]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny: Lost Souls - Discuss/Grade

Well, ok, ya got me there! I do remember Bowers referencing a few things that Ezri accomplished while she was on DS9 , so it wasn't totally devoid of DS9 stuff.....I just meant that it would have been more interesting to see sisko unclaok the Defiant and blow the hell out of some ships...hopefully 4 years after FS he decides he misses the center chair and just stays on the Defiant!

 

[Stevil2001]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

Intriguing. After nearly twenty years, I had no idea that "Locutus" meant something. I just assumed it was some sort of nonsense.

I remember turning a page in my Latin textbook and being hit with the new vocab word loquor, loquī, locūtus sum and going "Oh!"

 

[KRAD]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

Of course, that had me curious about the Ferengi that the Borg renamed Vastator in Vendetta. I don't know if I can trust online translators, but "Vastator" apparently means "Destroyer."

What "Vastator" means is wholly irrelevant to its use in Vendetta. "Vastator" was the nom du plume of someone who paid for an ad in Comics Buyer's Guide looking for dirt on Gary Groth, Fantagraphics, and The Comics Journal. This was in 1990, in the midst of one of the many billions of wars between Gary Groth and Harlan Ellison, and Groth believed that Ellison was Vastator. Peter was caught in the midst of that particular war, probably because he had the misfortune to be a) a mainstream comics writer of a type that Groth has never respected and b) a close friend of Harlan's.

(God, that brings back memories. In the early 90s, I actually wrote for the Journal -- a very short-lived tenure, that, in part because Groth screwed me more than once.......)

 

[Christopher]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

I don't know if I can trust online translators, but "Vastator" apparently means "Destroyer."

Sounds reasonable. It's just two letters shy of "devastator."

 

[David Mack]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

"Locutus" is basically Latin for "He Who Has Spoken." Picard was assimilated to be a spokesman for the Collective, and his name was based on that. (Well, actually it means more like "he who was talking just now." But that's close enough.)

"Logos" is a Greek term meaning a word, a concept, a principle, an explanation -- it's a very complex term. In the Biblical "In the Beginning was the Word," "the Word" is only a rough translation of Logos, the term used in the original Gospel. It means both the expression of a concept and the concept itself, both a word and its meaning -- "And the Word became flesh." Dave could explain better, but I'd guess that the Queen called her Logos because she was "the one we have waited for" -- the being that would give the Borg not only a new voice but new meaning.

Why are these names in Latin and Greek? Because it's Star Trek and aliens always seem to speak Latin or Greek. Or maybe because the Queen was coining these terms for human listeners, or maybe because the Borg descend from a human origin anyway.

That's one great thing about the Borg origin revealed here. It never made sense to me that a race of alien cyborgs would call themselves a name that's clearly derived from the English word "cyborg." But if they started out human, it makes a lot more sense.

^^I guess going to a high school that teaches mandatory Latin classes affects the way you hear and think about language. To me, the first thing I'd notice about a name like "Locutus" is its similarity to "locution," "elocution," "interlocutor," etc. It's got a definite vibe of "Speaker." I'm actually surprised that anyone could hear the name and not notice the similarity. But I guess taking Latin trains you to think about how the parts of different words are related to each other, rather than just hearing each word in isolation.

Just a quick note to say that Christopher's explanation is spot-on -- that is exactly the meaning that was implied by my choice of the name. And whereas he was taught Latin in high school, I spent a semester immersed in Latin and Greek during my senior year of college, when I took a course in basic etymology.

 

[Rat Boy]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

Just a quick note to say that Christopher's explanation is spot-on -- that is exactly the meaning that was implied by my choice of the name. And whereas he was taught Latin in high school, I spent a semester immersed in Latin and Greek during my senior year of college, when I took a course in basic etymology.

I suppose Thayer and Graylock did as well.

 

[nx1701g]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

"Locutus" is basically Latin for "He Who Has Spoken." Picard was assimilated to be a spokesman for the Collective, and his name was based on that. (Well, actually it means more like "he who was talking just now." But that's close enough.)

"Logos" is a Greek term meaning a word, a concept, a principle, an explanation -- it's a very complex term. In the Biblical "In the Beginning was the Word," "the Word" is only a rough translation of Logos, the term used in the original Gospel. It means both the expression of a concept and the concept itself, both a word and its meaning -- "And the Word became flesh." Dave could explain better, but I'd guess that the Queen called her Logos because she was "the one we have waited for" -- the being that would give the Borg not only a new voice but new meaning.

Why are these names in Latin and Greek? Because it's Star Trek and aliens always seem to speak Latin or Greek. Or maybe because the Queen was coining these terms for human listeners, or maybe because the Borg descend from a human origin anyway.

That's one great thing about the Borg origin revealed here. It never made sense to me that a race of alien cyborgs would call themselves a name that's clearly derived from the English word "cyborg." But if they started out human, it makes a lot more sense.

^^I guess going to a high school that teaches mandatory Latin classes affects the way you hear and think about language. To me, the first thing I'd notice about a name like "Locutus" is its similarity to "locution," "elocution," "interlocutor," etc. It's got a definite vibe of "Speaker." I'm actually surprised that anyone could hear the name and not notice the similarity. But I guess taking Latin trains you to think about how the parts of different words are related to each other, rather than just hearing each word in isolation.

Just a quick note to say that Christopher's explanation is spot-on -- that is exactly the meaning that was implied by my choice of the name. And whereas he was taught Latin in high school, I spent a semester immersed in Latin and Greek during my senior year of college, when I took a course in basic etymology.

For some reason thinking of the Borg and Latin Class reminds me of that episode of Family Guy where Stewie is controlling Chris with the technology and he talks about Latin Class.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Re: Star Trek: Destiny Book 3: Lost Souls - (SPOILERS)

(God, that brings back memories. In the early 90s, I actually wrote for the Journal -- a very short-lived tenure, that, in part because Groth screwed me more than once.......)

He must have done something right, though, to get a Klingon vessel named after him.