Designing the Loknar...

[CTM]

No, I haven't abandoned my TMP Enterprise build, but My Role Playing Group is getting ready to start, and will be based upon a Loknar class ship. I need to quickly sketch out some stats and rough deck plans for this ship. I intend to give it a proper build treatment AFTER I complete my TMP Enterprise project, but I need to rough out the Loknar this week.

So, on to the design questions. Please help me answer these questions, they are not just rhetorical (though I am the final arbiter of what goes in my ship).

For those of you who do not know, the Loknar class is a FASA originated ship design, originally contemporary of the TOS Constitution class. It consists of a saucer primary hull, and a bifurcated secondary hull leading to a single warp nacelle off each side.
http://www.shipschematics.net/startrek/images/federation/frigate_loknar.jpg

As spec'd by FASA, the Loknar is a Warp-7 capable Frigate, with a crew of under 80, 4 phaser banks, and three forward facing torpedo tubes.

We picked this ship for the RPG because it is small (comparable to an Oberth class), but well enough armed to be able to deal with substantial foes. I am building this out as a TMP-Refit era either modernization or original build ship.

As I see it, the Loknar is a well-armed patrol ship, designed to fare well against larger opponents. The purpose of the bifurcated secondary hull is to provide power-plant redundancy. I envision two reactor cores (smaller than in the Constitution Refit [Enterprise], probably on the order of the size in the Miranda's [Reliant]), each powering the local warp nacelle AND providing power to a high-powered forward-facing "megaphaser" and two deflector dishes (smaller than on Enterprise, but present just the same). A transfer conduit connects both cores, allowing one to power both nacelles (Where and how this is routed is up for some debate).

In the refit, or redesign, I figure that a TMP-style impulse engine is approximately split, and placed at the aft end of both secondary hulls, and a hangar-deck / cargo-bay is built forward and between them, filling some of the bifurcation (but still well enough forward to allow a landing from above or below without getting tangled with the impulse exhaust).

Attached immediately below the existing secondary hull I would place a Photorp pod equivalent to the Reliant/Miranda's, and I would accept the reduction in forward facing Photorps, for the addition of one aft (and the upgrading of the previously mentioned forward phasers).

This configuration leaves little else that can fit in the secondary hull, meaning most other essentials must fit in the Primary Hull. Here is the next question: Does this need to be the same size as the Constitution Primary, or can I make a reduced size one? It is worth noting that the number of Quarters on my TMP Enterprise (see the other thread) are not sufficent for private quarters for the entire crew of 400+ (I am assuming the junior enlisted are bunked, as shown in STVI:TUC). I could give everyone private quarters, or reduce the size of the primary, or both. There are limited science labs aboard, as this is a ship built for combat and patrol, but there should be space for some GP labs. Sickbay shouldn't have to be as large with 1/4 of the crew size. The question is, I guess, do I push for the amenities, or the capabilities? What is the required realistic crew size for a ship with this role?

<tangent>
Minimal Combat Crew Size:

Command Group:

• Captain
• XO
• Ops

Bridge Crew:

• Helmsman x3 (one for each shift)
• Navigator x3 (one for each shift)
• Weaps/TacticO x3 (one for each shift)
• Communications x3 (you get the idea)

Engineering:

• Chief Engineer
• Impulse Chief
• Warp Chief
• Warp Engine Tech x6? (one for each core/shift?)
• Impulse Engine Tech x6
• GP Engineering Tech x6
• Transporter Tech x3 (one active transporter room?)

Medical:

• CMO
• Head Nurse
• Nurse x2
• Medic x3

Security/Weapons:

• Security Chief
• Phaser Tech x8 (one per phaser bank?)
• Photorp Tech x8 (two per tube?)
• Armorer
• Security Crewman x6 (two per shift)

Quartermaster:

• Supply Officer
• Cargo Loadmaster
• Commissary Clerk x3 (one per shift)

Total Crew: ~76 is this too high/too low?
</tangent discussion>

So, I guess I'll toss this out, and start working on diagramming some of the concepts.

 

[JJohnson]

As to a TMP-era refit of the ship, I'd probably fill out the saucer so there aren't those two blades left, leave the impulse engines at the saucer's edge, put twin shuttlebays at the edge of the pylons, and stick with your photorp pod underneath. I would keep the Constitution-sized saucer to fit in all the mechanics, though. A side-benefit of keeping the impulse engines is that engineering can still remain in the underslung faux-secondary-hull, along with the warp core.

As to the crew, you can certainly make do with 80, but I'd have 2 transporter rooms for redundancy's sake. And you're right, it's not a science vessel, but being Starfleet, they'd probably have a science officer and a few shift officers for the event they find something out in space; perhaps a total of 90 or so?

 

[Albertese]

Interesting. I always was fond of the Loknar, though I never gave it as much thought as o doing a TMP type refit to it. I dunno how closely you want to stick to FASA's established canon of the ship, but the adventure supplement Decision at Midnight was set aboard the USS Arkedelphia and (I thought) was a pretty cool story. The book gave a deck by deck breakdown of the ship's areas. The accompanying "deckplans" (I'm being generous with the term) were among FASA's weakest efforts, but the text seemed pretty good. If you don't have it, I can look it up and summarize it for you. Or not, if you've already got your own idea in mind.

--Alex

 

[Ziz]

Considering how structurally similar it is to the NX-01, I'd say start with those crew specs (80 +/-) and deck layout and see where that gets you.

 

[EmperorKalan]

You might want to check out this old thread on Sci-Fi Meshes:
http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/3d-wips/53431-loknar-refit-uss-phobos-conversion-blender-7.html
It's pretty much what you're describing.
(you may have to register to view the pics. It's free, though).

 

[BolianAuthor]

I knew the Phobos was gonna interfere with the purity of this thread sooner or later...

First of all, congratulations on your choice of ship... the Loknar is one of my all-time favorite fanon designs. She's a beauty.

If you refit this ship... stay true to her... the Phobos is NOT a Loknar refit... never has been, and never will be. The person who made that model on Sci Fi Meshes just saw how similar the basic shapes were, and decided to "call" it the Loknar refit... but it isn't, and can never hope to be. I have seen a LOT of much better-looking and faithful refits of the Loknar around... one of which I think was even done by FASA, IIRC. I think Vance might have even done one, but I could be wrong. Just PLEASE, don't use the Phobos design, lol... it is not a Loknar.

 

[Herkimer Jitty]

The Loknar's crazily high nacelles have always really bothered me. It's like a Plymouth Superbird in space. This Phobos development appears to be an improvement in my eye.

 

[JJohnson]

I found a Movie-era refit here. This might be worth a look.

 

[CTM]

I am largely familiar with existing meshes. What most of them do is make a "pretty looking ship" without paying attention to how a ship is actually built. You develop the spec, then put in the "big things" that drive the remainder of the look-and-feel of the ship. Not that you cannot make a good looking ship this way, but you first make a FUNCTIONAL ship, then make it good looking.

I look at the Loknar form, and see the bifurcated secondary hull. Why is it Bifurcated? The only logical reason I can come up with is for making fully redundant engineering support systems. (Think if you saw an Apollo or Orion spacecraft with TWO service modules instead of the normal one. Why would they have two?). If you have two redundant systems, you have to have a fairly good reason for it. What sort of a hostile environment are you expecting to encounter? Most starships we see do not have that level of redundancy. The only thing that makes sense to me in this context is a dedicated combat/patrol ship (think Cruiser/Battlecruiser during the first world war for possible combat role - not to stand toe-to-toe with the ships of the line, but certainly to strike fast and hard, and then still have the mobility to escape a more powerful opponent).

So, while what I'm working on I will call a Loknar class, it is more of what the Loknar should have been, had real design work been done, instead of just "making it look good."

 

[EmperorKalan]

The only thing that makes sense to me in this context is a dedicated combat/patrol ship (think Cruiser/Battlecruiser during the first world war for possible combat role - not to stand toe-to-toe with the ships of the line, but certainly to strike fast and hard, and then still have the mobility to escape a more powerful opponent).

So, while what I'm working on I will call a Loknar class, it is more of what the Loknar should have been, had real design work been done, instead of just "making it look good."

Did you reason this out independently, or were you already aware that this was precisely the role FASA had in mind for the Locknar? (thus it's "frigate" designation, in the "age of sail" sense rather than the late 20th-century usage)

If the former,

 

[CTM]

The only thing that makes sense to me in this context is a dedicated combat/patrol ship (think Cruiser/Battlecruiser during the first world war for possible combat role - not to stand toe-to-toe with the ships of the line, but certainly to strike fast and hard, and then still have the mobility to escape a more powerful opponent).

So, while what I'm working on I will call a Loknar class, it is more of what the Loknar should have been, had real design work been done, instead of just "making it look good."

Did you reason this out independently, or were you already aware that this was precisely the role FASA had in mind for the Locknar? (thus it's "frigate" designation, in the "age of sail" sense rather than the late 20th-century usage)

If the former,

A little of both, honestly. I have all the published FASA material, and then some (been a collector of this sort of material since the 80s). I don't claim to have read detailed stuff on most of the ships, however. I think of Frigate in the "Age of Sail" sense, not in the modern "let's stick a type name on this ship", so the designation as a Frigate helps; but compared to the Connie's designation as Heavy Cruisers or Battle Cruisers doesn't help. I think of the Connies and Excelsiors etc. as the main ship-of-the-line (Dreadnought in more modern parlance); with Mirandas filling the Battlecruiser role; and the Loknars filling a Cruiser Killer role (compare the British Battlecruiser concept a century ago with the German Battlecruiser concept of the same time. The British sacrificed armor for speed, giving them firepower and punch, but glass chins. The Germans sacrificed firepower for speed, giving them enough punch to take down cruisers, and enough armor to take punches from heavier opponents, and then using their speed to get away.).

Looking at the Loknar, it is a small but formidable ship. There is no way it isn't designed for combat - even without reading the associated text. While Starfleet Armor (shields) isn't as clearly evident as compared to First World War era surface combatants, the fact that they split the secondary hull only makes engineering sense if they are going for survivability redundancy (falls under the "Armor" tenant). I can envision a Loknar in a combat action having one of it's nacelles, and even a good part of one of the secondary hulls blown away, and still being able to continue the fight thanks to the redundant systems in the other hull; and perhaps even being able to make it's way home under (albeit limited) warp power.

While I don't necessarily see them having the range or endurance of a Connie or Miranda, I can easily see a pair or trio of them taking on a D-7 or Warbird trying to come across either Neutral Zone; and having the speed/firepower to take down any marauding pirate or rogue. In a stand-up fight, they might quickly be overpowered by heavier class opponents, but not without completing a "mission kill" (think of the damage to the Bismarck, which while it didn't sink her, forced her to turn for port, and gave the Brits the opportunity to track her down and kill her).

 

[Vonstadt]

I always Loved the Loknar class, it was one of the first ships I used waaaay back in 1983 (I think) When I bought the first edition FASA game! U.S.S. Tisophone (named for the Avenging Angel Fury of greek myth) NCC-2709. Though the ships were named after cities we broke that bit saying it was named after a famous frigate in the romulan war. The ship's insignia was a stylized Hoplite shield with a upright spear running up behind it. (One of my players was a great artist, even sketched one for each player with his or her division symbol in its center )

It was our first campiagn ship and even after the crew was promoted up to a Connie (The Lady Lex ) I occasionally had the old crew meet the crew they had trained from time to time aboard their old ship.

Even help each other on several mission and take on a D-7 or Gorn or three...wow this brought back memories!

Good Luck with it and the decision at midnight adventure is GREAT! Even has a ful crew roster 79-80 crew I think it was...the Arkadelphia had 88 of them. All given as NPC with shifts as well!

Its always available on Ebay, you should check it out!

Thanks for the memories!

Vons

 

[CTM]

I always Loved the Loknar class, it was one of the first ships I used waaaay back in 1983 (I think) When I bought the first edition FASA game! U.S.S. Tisophone (named for the Avenging Angel Fury of greek myth) NCC-2709. Though the ships were named after cities we broke that bit saying it was named after a famous frigate in the romulan war. The ship's insignia was a stylized Hoplite shield with a upright spear running up behind it. (One of my players was a great artist, even sketched one for each player with his or her division symbol in its center )

It was our first campiagn ship and even after the crew was promoted up to a Connie (The Lady Lex ) I occasionally had the old crew meet the crew they had trained from time to time aboard their old ship.

Even help each other on several mission and take on a D-7 or Gorn or three...wow this brought back memories!

Good Luck with it and the decision at midnight adventure is GREAT! Even has a ful crew roster 79-80 crew I think it was...the Arkadelphia had 88 of them. All given as NPC with shifts as well!

Its always available on Ebay, you should check it out!

Thanks for the memories!

Vons

I actually have all the FASA published material (at least as far as I can tell - I've been collecting this stuff since the 80s). I hadn't run through Decision at Midnight, in fact I hadn't done more than read the brief synopsis at the front. I agree with what someone elsewhere said about the "deck plans" being a poor effort. I didn't realize there was a whole crew roster and Table of Organization. I will have to spend some time reviewing it in more detail. I'm not sure how well this particular scenario will fit in with the start of this new campaign, but thanks for the heads-up.

 

[CTM]

So, I've put in some more thought on the ship layout. I could take my TMP-E primary, with some modifications as the Loknar Primary... keep all the quarters forward of the cross-ship mid-line. I would wind up rotating Sick Bay to the forward side of the same deck, and dropping some of the transporter rooms. I'd leave some of the lab space, and basically integrate Main Engineering, the Cargo Bay, and Hangar Bay into the aft portion of the Primary Hull (F-deck and below) which would be integrated with the forward section of the Secondary Hulls.

As I look at the space involved, the Secondary Hull sponsons would be just large enough to each contain an intermix chamber (short vertical, long horizontal), small impulse deck, and some fuel stowage. Cramped is kinda the word I am thinking of to describe it, but we shall see when I start laying out the actual components.

Here is my next question: For the power-transfer conduit between sponsons, should I run them more-or-less straight between the reactors (i.e. the reactors are forward), or should I have the reactors aft and run a sort of a U or H shape to connect everything? (Warp Nacelle, Impulse Engine, Deflector/MegaPhaser, cross-connect).