Spoilers Designated Survivor

[bigdaddy]

I'm pretty sure if you already were elected twice you can not serve as president again. So even if Bill Clinton was VP at some point it would go to the next in line.

There are currently 1-2 people in the line of succession that can't be president because they weren't born in America... However Ted Crus was getting around that so who knows.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

My question is the longevity factor. Once we get past the issue of him being the "fish out of water" and setting up the replacement government and sussing out who carried out the plot, what's next? Does it become a day to day government procedural show, ala West Wing as the seasons go on?

As I mentioned before, I hope the show follows a natural progression, allowing the stories and characters to grow from this tragic event, eventually going back to a normal setting but with a new dynamic in the background. Specifically, I mean a president who wasn't elected but was formerly the HUD secretary and a congress and supreme court that has been built from scratch all at once. I can see a lot of potential in exploring those avenues without become ridiculous like 24, but without being repetitive like The West Wing (although I wouldn't mind the latter if the writing is good).

Each season doesn't have to be a whole year...
I imagine season 1 will be the first month in office.

I hope the scope isn't that small and becomes the standard. I could see six months, but not much shorter. Otherwise, the growth of the two children becomes very noticeable a la Walt on LOST.

Yes they should. Explosions are loud, and carry. I realise, from a dramatic point of view, why they did the shot where he looks out at the explosion, but it is greatly problematic, from a realism perspective. He would never have been that close, in an unprotected upper room, and also couldn't have missed the bang in the otherwise quiet room.

It's possible the undisclosed location is soundproof (although apparently the windows aren't bullet proof).

 

[Snaploud]

I'm pretty sure if you already were elected twice you can not serve as president again.

That's not what the 22nd amendment actually says, though. It just limits the number of times somebody can be elected president and places no restrictions upon the number of times (or years in total) one could serve as a result of assuming office through the line of succession. It could be challenged in court over 'original intent' reasons, but that decision could go either way.

 

[Trekker4747]

That's not what the 22nd amendment actually says, though. It justs limits the number of times somebody can be elected president and places no restrictions upon the number of times (or years in total) one could serve as a result of assuming office through the line of succession. It could be challenged in court over 'original intent' reasons, but that decision could go either way.

Thing is, there's no way to serve 10 years as President and not be elected twice. The amendment does restrict the number of times you can be elected but it says if you take over a presidency inside of the first two years you can only run again once. So this means if you take over a Presidency 2-years minus 1 day in to a Presidency you can only run for re-election once. This would give you 6 years in office at then end of the first election. You can't run again because then you'd have 10 years plus one day in office. If you take over 2-years PLUS 1 day you can run for re-election twice, you finish out that 1 year and 364-days of the original president's term, get re-elected serve another 4 years and at the end of that term you have 5 years and one day less than a 6th year, you can run again because you can finish that new term giving you 9 years and 1 day shy of a 10th year, or possibly exactly 10 years taking into consideration leap year.

Sure, the amendment says you can only be elected twice, but you can't be elected that second time if that term would put you over 10 years, so you can't even run to be elected because you can't run if you cannot complete the term.

 

[Commander Richard]

1x02...

Who's the survivor? And what happens if that person is higher up in the line of succession? If they're incapacitated, I guess that would keep Kirkman in office but at least it'd be another episode of questions and drama.

And it looks like one season won't necessarily be one year unless the pace picks up or there's a time jump.

 

[Snaploud]

Thing is, there's no way to serve 10 years as President and not be elected twice. The amendment does restrict the number of times you can be elected but it says if you take over a presidency inside of the first two years you can only run again once. So this means if you take over a Presidency 2-years minus 1 day in to a Presidency you can only run for re-election once. This would give you 6 years in office at then end of the first election. You can't run again because then you'd have 10 years plus one day in office. If you take over 2-years PLUS 1 day you can run for re-election twice, you finish out that 1 year and 364-days of the original president's term, get re-elected serve another 4 years and at the end of that term you have 5 years and one day less than a 6th year, you can run again because you can finish that new term giving you 9 years and 1 day shy of a 10th year, or possibly exactly 10 years taking into consideration leap year.

Sure, the amendment says you can only be elected twice, but you can't be elected that second time if that term would put you over 10 years, so you can't even run to be elected because you can't run if you cannot complete the term.

I think we may be talking in circles here. I'm saying that the explicit language of the amendment only limits the number of times a person can be "elected" to the presidency. The language does not explicitly limit the number of times somebody can succeed to the office of the presidency through the line of succession, so there is actually no constitutional limit on the number of years somebody could serve as president. If, for instance, Bill Clinton became Secretary of Commerce at the beginning of Hillary Clinton's first term, he could succeed to the office of the presidency for the entire rest of her term were she (and the others above Bill in the line of succession) to die or resign. In theory, this process could be repeated over and over again (appointing Bill in a new term and the others above him dying/resigning).

Of course, that's based upon a very explicit reading of the text of the 22nd amendment, and the courts could decide differently (were they ever to rule on the issue) depending upon their interpretation of the amendment's original intent.

 

[Commander Richard]

Up until I read this thread, I thought that if Bill Clinton were VP and something happened to Hillary, the Presidency would pass to the Speaker of the House. Now my understanding is that Bill would only be able to serve for 2 additional years before having to resign.

 

[Snaploud]

1x02...

Who's the survivor? And what happens if that person is higher up in the line of succession? If they're incapacitated, I guess that would solve that problem but it'd be another episode of questions and drama.

And it looks like one season won't necessarily be one year unless the pace picks up or there's a time jump.

In theory, the person higher-up in line of succession should become president. Or, rather, it means that the higher-up in the line of succession was already president and nobody actually knew it (as the oath of office is not a requirement of assuming office but a requirement before executing the duties of the office). It does leave a bit of a question regarding the legality of the actions of the guy who was acting president for the brief period before locating the higher-up, though. In practice, it would make sense for the new acting president to sign an executive order confirming the validity of all the actions taken by the other guy.

For the 2010 State of the Union Address, Housing and Urban Development Secretary Shaun Donovan was the designated survivor. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was also absent from the address. However, Secret Service rules prevented Clinton from being named the designated survivor since it was public knowledge that she was at a conference in London during the event.[3] Had a calamity occurred in Washington, Clinton (not Donovan) would have become Acting President, as her office was higher in the line of succession.[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_survivor

 

[Snaploud]

Up until I read this thread, I thought that if Bill Clinton were VP and something happened to Hillary, the Presidency would pass to the Speaker of the House. Now my understanding is that Bill would only be able to serve for 2 additional years before having to resign.

No. He would either be able to serve for the full rest of the term, or he would not be able to serve at all (depending upon the interpretation of the courts). In reality, though, the court would rule on the issue before Bill took the VP position because the VP is required to be eligible to serve as president (which is different linguistically from being eligible to be "elected president"--the phrase used in the 22nd amendment).

 

[tenmei]

Now - am watching this on Netflix in the UK and am therefore operating on limited knowledge of US politics.

But where are they going with Congresswoman Hookstraten? It's clear that they set her up with the 'She'd be a much better choice for President -' and that if they make it as far as an election, it will be Hookstraten vs Kirkman. Are they angling for her to be the new Vice President - is she not already the defacto Vice President in this scenario? Or will the selection of the cabinet see her allocated to Secretary of State - she played much like a Kennedy/Clinton combination.

 

[Guy Gardener]

She's the enemy.

Republican vs. Democrat.

Cats vs. Dogs.

Piss vs. Vinegar.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Still trying to get used to a character named Hookstratten who is NOT played by Fred Willard....

 

[Trekker4747]

Now - am watching this on Netflix in the UK and am therefore operating on limited knowledge of US politics.

But where are they going with Congresswoman Hookstraten? It's clear that they set her up with the 'She'd be a much better choice for President -' and that if they make it as far as an election, it will be Hookstraten vs Kirkman. Are they angling for her to be the new Vice President - is she not already the defacto Vice President in this scenario? Or will the selection of the cabinet see her allocated to Secretary of State - she played much like a Kennedy/Clinton combination.

Vice President isn't a position one ascends to, it's not like on a Klingon ship. When a VP takes over the presidency the Speaker of the House doesn't ascend to Vice President. The new president either appoints a new Vice-President or we just go without.

I thought this episode was good, though I wish we could've seem Bauer's address in its entirety, or at least most of it, pretty much the same with the attack site speech. I liked Bauer's handling of that bit with not wanting to wear the BP vest and his handling of the Michigan governor.

It's interesting how we often see him when among what serves as his staff at the moment he's indecisive and sort-of spineless but in moments where he's alone or with people he's comfortable with he grows a bit more backbone, like when dealing with the Michigan governor over teleconference, and his a bit of nutting-up when speaking with the military leaders in the bunker.

The stuff with the Michigan governor and the enforcement he was going with, sadly, strikes me as very realistic should another extreme act of terrorism occur; hell it's not too different than things that happened in the wake of 9/11 against the Muslim community, nice moment with Kumar's encounter with DC police while on his way to work. Again, feels totally realistic gicen the way people operate and act these days.

It's not much of a surprise, but this episode confirms that the president, and Bauer, are Democrats. (So maybe a clue to his spinelessness?) Last week during the President's SOTU address he makes comments on the against the "One Percent" which is fairly big clue he was a Democrat. The Republicans put up a DS too? How the hell does that work? Just in case the entire line of succession AND the president's DS were all killed? And they picked a woman? :suppresses laughter:

I hald expected Maggie Q's character to step in and present her theories to the President when he was visiting the site under the cloak of darkness. I suspect the recovered survivor to either be non line of succession observer of the address or to not survive his injuries, or for them to be extensive enough, precluding him from ascending to office. The news interview should be interesting.

I do love how we get our "Jack Bauer" moments from Sutherland, we even got a "Dammit!"

Still a good, interesting, show but I look more forward to when Bauer settles into his new roles and the nonsense going on qith questioning his capabilities and the aftermath of the explosion is over.

Oh, and it's 2016, glasses technology has come a very long way. I have a very strong prescription and my glasses are small and thin. Can someone get Bauer some nice-looking metal frames instead of those browline/horn-rimmed glasses he wears?

 

[Mach5]

The "Did you lose anyone?" scene at the end was beautiful.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Another very good episode. I'm really happy to see that the show is taking it's time to deal with all of the issues at and it looks like we'll get a lot of focus on the political issues of restoring the government. The show seems genuinely interested in following the Constitution and the laws of the land as largely seen with the Michigan crisis.

And it looks like one season won't necessarily be one year unless the pace picks up or there's a time jump.

To be fair, we're only two episodes in and there's a lot of issues to unpack (restoring all three branches of the government, discovering who was responsible, fear and anger leading to racial tensions, etc.) and I much prefer the show to take it's time to deal with these issues. As things are dealt with, I expect the time flow to pick up.

The stuff with the Michigan governor and the enforcement he was going with, sadly, strikes me as very realistic should another extreme act of terrorism occur; hell it's not too different than things that happened in the wake of 9/11 against the Muslim community, nice moment with Seth's encounter with DC police while on his way to work. Again, feels totally realistic given the way people operate and act these days.

While those scenes angered me, I'm glad the show addressed those issues appropriately and show there are no easy fixes. They're ongoing issues and they aren't going anywhere. How the show continues to work with those issues will be crucial to the show's success.

 

[JD]

I really enjoyed this episode. I was a bit worried that all of the conspiracy stuff, with both people plotting against Kirkman and the attack investigation would take over the show, but those seem to be secondary right now.
I liked that they did start to show him working on rebuilding the government.
The stuff happening in Michigan was sadly realistic, and was also a nice to way to show how people lowing in the government are reacting to Kirkman being president.
When they revealed the Republicans also had a designated survivor I was worried she'd come in as hostile and want to take over, so I was happy she was actually nice, and cooperative. It does look like we might be getting some conflict with her next week though. Did anyone see what the second headline she read was?
I was surprised when they didn't have Maggie Q's character tell Kirkman her theory when he visited the capitol. I also liked the fact that her boss didn't totally blow her off and forbid her from continuing her investigation.

 

[Snaploud]

The Republicans put up a DS too? How the hell does that work? Just in case the entire line of succession AND the president's DS were all killed? And they picked a woman? :suppresses;

The congressional designated survivor is a real thing. She isn't in the presidential line of succession, though. Her job is supposed to be the person with enough institutional knowledge to help re-establish the legislative branch of government. And, yes, the role is usually taken by a member of the congressional leadership, so it makes sense that she would have a bit of extra political experience.

 

[Trekker4747]

Ah, so she was just DS for the legislative branch. Okay. I'm guessing the Judicial branch doesn't put one up, though, pretty sure I recall all of the SCOTUS at SotUs.

 

[tenmei]

We've got a full season, it's been confirmed.

 

[Tim Thomason]

Ah, so she was just DS for the legislative branch. Okay. I'm guessing the Judicial branch doesn't put one up, though, pretty sure I recall all of the SCOTUS at SotUs.

Yeah, the Supreme Court will be fine (relatively). Cases that would be settled by the Supreme Court would be dealt with by the lower courts and the hundreds of federal judges still around. Kirkman can wait on appointing Justices after he gets his Cabinet together and the government back up.