Depressed about Vulcan

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

So tonight I was watching ENT's The Forge which takes place on Vulcan.. beautiful, red, harsh, arid Vulcan. And I was sad throughout the whole episode thinking about Vulcan being gone. Utterly lost to us as a planet. All the people and the immense history and the sehlats and the culture.. it's really very depressing.

*sigh*

 

[GeneHunt]

If it got to you that much I think you need to revaluate your life lol.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I loved it. It was that Vulcan had such a rich culture (especially in the novels) that made it's demise so impactful. It's the defining event that seperates STXI from TOS.

Besides, the essence of their culture lives on on the new colony planet, and with all the Katras the Vulcan elders were "downloading" when Spock came to rescue them.

 

[Pauln6]

Enterprise really started to find its feet when it went back to exammine the cultures of TOS races such as the Orions, Vulcans, Andorians, and Tellarites. It's frustrating to lose the planet because in 40 years we only saw Vulcan on a handful of occasions. Nevertheless, the current position does provide fertile ground for Vulcan culture and politics in sequels and novels. Plus we can still see Vulcan in 'Lost' style flashbacks!

 

[BillJ]

Don't worry. In six or seven years we'll be rebooting again and Vulcan will be right back where it started.

 

[C.E. Evans]

In the prime universe, the only thing that happened was likely a public memorial for the presumed loss of Ambassador Spock. Otherwise, it's business as usual on Vulcan.

In the alternate universe, yeah, kind of sucks to be a Vulcan right now...

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

It blowed up real good.

Cardassia and whatever the fuck they're calling Klingon World now should be next.

 

[Merky]

Don't worry, it still exists in Alternate Unvierse #325235235235

 

[Novitas]

I thought the destruction of Vulcan was a high price to pay for effect. But if you're throwing caution to the wind, why not Earth instead? Now THAT would have been ballsy!

 

[94253]

It was that Vulcan had such a rich culture (especially in the novels) that made it's demise so impactful. It's the defining event that seperates STXI from TOS.

Agreed. I am anxious to see where the alternate reality goes from here.

 

[Gojira]

In the alternate universe Vulcan is no more but Romulus still exists. In the prime universe Vulcan still exists but Romulus is no more.

 

[sonak]

Call me an idiot if you like, but is it explicitly stated in some companion to the film that Star Trek XI is in an alternate universe?


It seems to me that Spock Prime and Nero simply travelled directly back in time and changed the Prime Universe's timeline, they didn't create an alternate one.


Otherwise, that's very different from previous time travel in Star Trek. The Ent-C in "yesterday's Enterprise went back and changed the UFP-Klingon war timeline, right?


I mean, there's not still a timeline with the heavily militarized Federation fighting the Klingons, while seasons 4-7 of TNG are in an alternate timeline, is there?


it's been assumed that changing the past changes THE SAME TIMELINE. When did the rules change for Trek XI?

 

[sonak]

just to clarify: I know it's established that there are tons of alternate timelines in Trek.


However, time travel within one timeline has only ever affected that same timeline, not created entirely new timelines. (at least I think this is the case. I could be wrong. But a lot of the time travel episodes wouldn't make sense if they were creating brand new timelines every time they changed the past. In "yesterday's enterprise," we even see the changes WITHIN ONE TIMELINE when the Ent-C emerges from the rift.)

 

[Ubik]

Call me an idiot if you like, but is it explicitly stated in some companion to the film that Star Trek XI is in an alternate universe?


It seems to me that Spock Prime and Nero simply travelled directly back in time and changed the Prime Universe's timeline, they didn't create an alternate one.


Otherwise, that's very different from previous time travel in Star Trek. The Ent-C in "yesterday's Enterprise went back and changed the UFP-Klingon war timeline, right?


I mean, there's not still a timeline with the heavily militarized Federation fighting the Klingons, while seasons 4-7 of TNG are in an alternate timeline, is there?


it's been assumed that changing the past changes THE SAME TIMELINE. When did the rules change for Trek XI?

When people started to get uncomfortable with the idea that, because of Star Trek XI, all the stories on their DVDs on their shelves at home never happened, perhaps forgetting that none of it ever happened anyway.

 

[Merky]

Spock explains his theory on Nero's intrusion. Uhura says, " an Alternate reality ", and Spock confirms her deduction.

Spock Prime's mere existence in this universe without any changes to who he is or his memories should be a sign that he is in an Alternate reality and not his direct past.

Of course, this could just be a slip up by the writers who did not want to address the issue directly.

Or maybe Spock will soon forget.

Or maybe the producers just wanted to avoid pissing off the manchildren...

Or maybe this or maybe that...

 

[F. King Daniel]

Call me an idiot if you like, but is it explicitly stated in some companion to the film that Star Trek XI is in an alternate universe?

Yes. The novel The Needs of the Many.

It seems to me that Spock Prime and Nero simply travelled directly back in time and changed the Prime Universe's timeline, they didn't create an alternate one.
...
I mean, there's not still a timeline with the heavily militarized Federation fighting the Klingons, while seasons 4-7 of TNG are in an alternate timeline, is there?

In the novel Q-Squared, there is.

it's been assumed that changing the past changes THE SAME TIMELINE. When did the rules change for Trek XI?

They tweaked it based on real-life theories, which Trek played with as far back as "Mirror, Mirror" and later in "Parallels"

This clip from the Stargate episode "Before I Sleep" explains it: Click.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The movie established that it's an alt-u. The characters shouldn't be so certain about it as they sound - how could they ever know, really? - but the bizarre way that they do sound certain signifies it's really the writers telling us what they intend. They had to break the fourth wall to do it, so I figure they thought it was really important not to leave any doubts. I'm willing to accept their intent and see where they go from here.

And there will be a new Vulcan. It will be even better than the old one. Betcha it still looks like Vasquez Rocks, too.

 

[sonak]

OK then, I didn't realize that it was an alternate universe even before Spock and Nero came back. That seems kind of odd that they would shift between universes when traveling back through time, but I can see why they wouldn't want to have the post-TOS timeline so wildly altered.

 

[Merky]

That seems kind of odd that they would shift between universes when traveling back through time,

Not really. Didn't ENT use that plot device for A Mirror Darkly? The Defiant was from the future but the Tholians from the past grabbed it... or whatever.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

OK then, I didn't realize that it was an alternate universe even before Spock and Nero came back. That seems kind of odd that they would shift between universes when traveling back through time, but I can see why they wouldn't want to have the post-TOS timeline so wildly altered.

The kicker for me was that Nero and Spock travelled back by use of the 'red matter' wormhole. That strongly indicates that they emerged into the past of an alternate universe - because the black hole spit them out there. If they had time travelled by a different means, such as the Guardian of Forever, things might be different...