Deep Space Nine thoughts & questions

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by los2188, Dec 18, 2012.

  1. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Sep 13, 2012
    Location? What is this?
    By the way, "failed" is the wrong word. I should say "the reason why it didn't work for me at the time." That certainly doesn't make it a failure!
  2. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

    Mar 8, 2001
    Great Britain
    As others have said DSN (and similiar shows such as B5) started to air just a few years too early. There was a shift going on to that sort of format for certain types of shows.

    The likes of B5/DSN rewarded the viewer for tuning in each week.
  3. timtonruben359

    timtonruben359 Commander Red Shirt

    Feb 27, 2012
    I thought I was the only that felt this way! I think DS9 was ahead of its time in many ways. I mean may of the topics the show dealt with like war, terrorism and religion became major issues after 9/11.

    DS9 didn't get the respect is was owed when it was on the air.
  4. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

    Mar 8, 2001
    Great Britain
    War, Terrorism and Religon where major topics long before 9/11. Off the top of my head

    IRA in the United Kingdom
    ETA In Spain
    World Trade Centre bombing in 1993
    Terrosit bombings in places like Israel, India, Colombo

    The list goes on and on.
  5. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

    Sep 13, 2011
    Pretty much. You could view the Bajoran Occupation as a larger scale and prolonged version of the Holocaust. With the Bajorans being the Jews and Cardassians as the Nazis. While both the Bajorans and the Jewish people commited acts of "terrorism" and other violence against their oppressors. It could be justified given the circumstances. While their were innocent casualties among Cardassians who had nothing to do with the military or occupation, terrorism is a tool of the desperate in extremes.

    To a lesser extent you have the IRA. With their conflict with the UK being over civil rights and fair treatment. Similar to what african-americans and other minorites went through in the US. Difference is the IRA used violence and bombs to attack British military and other target, while a majority of violence was directed toward the marching protest of the blacks in the US from the establishment government. I say majority because the muslim brotherhood was also apart of the civil rights era and they were more militant.

    I digress. A show like DS9 with terrorism and religion as the central conflict for a pitch to any network now would probably not be picked up. During the 90's terrorism was a far away thing. It was real in other countries but little more than science fiction to us in the States. The Islamist/muslim terrorists share a similar vein with the Bajorans. In the sense that they feel their religion is the one true faith and could care less about the infidels (non-believers). It's made worse by the fact that in DS9 their Bajoran gods are real. Frakking real! I couldn't stand all the preachy religious BS every single Bajoran spouted. It was so annoying. Religion is about faith, if your gods are proven to be real, then where is the investment? That you hope they'll send you blessings or do special favors for you? Like destroying a 2,800 Dominion Fleet coming through the Wormhole kind of favor? With Muslims they take their holy texts very seriously. Look at the attacks in Afghanistan at the US base when a FL preacher said he would hold a Koran burning day. I was raised Christian but no longer practice, and Im an American. If some guy across the world said he would burn a bunch of bibles or American flags (which does happen frequently) I wouldn't care. You don't see people of other faiths in any country leading riots and killing innocent people over the depiction of their faith in a Youtube video or what some crazy southern said he would do to books I assumed he bought just to burn them.

    These are major turn offs to networks who have to make money of their shows. They make money by the people who buy ad time for commercials. Even a legitimate show about a muslim family was cancelled. TLC's All American Muslim. Research the controversy on that show. To be fair to the Bajorans they unlike the Islamist/Muslim terrorists in the middle east constantly use bombs that drastically effect the civilian population. You can't go two days without hearing about some new bomb killing innocent people in Pakistan, or Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Turkey, Yemen. The list goes on.

    Networks see the words religion and terrorism and they'd pass.
  6. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Vice Admiral Admiral

    Nov 20, 2012
    It's true terrorism wasn't a new phenomenon in 2001, but Americans saw it as 'A thing that happened elsewhere' before then.

    The Nazis aren't the only nation who've ever tried to completely dominate another. Japan did it to China around the same time, France did it to Algeria, powerful nations did it to the rest of the world for all of the 19th century, the Romans did it to every culture around them.

    Recommended film watching:
    The Battle of Algiers
    The Human Condition Part I
    Army of Shadows
  7. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

    Mar 8, 2001
    Great Britain
    ^But there had been several terrorist attacks in the USA prior to the September 11th attack:

    Oklahoma City in 1995
    First World Trade Centre Bombing in 1993
    Olympic Park bombing in 1996

    They might have been less frequent in the USA than in other parts of the world, but they did occur and logic would say they could occur again. The only shocking think about the September 11th attacks was not that they occured but the severity.
  8. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Dec 29, 2012
    I didn't want to give "..Nor the Battle to the Strong" it's own thread for one tiny snark, so I'll add it to this general thread...

    LoL that Jake was able to drive off the Klingons by firing a phaser rifle like you should instead of exchanging fire like a six shooter in an old western.
  9. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

    Aug 23, 2001
    Full of hot air.
    You had me at hello. :p
  10. flemm

    flemm Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    May 8, 2009

    I think that's probably a fair assessment.

    Emissary is a good episode in many ways, but a flawed pilot imo because so much time is spent with Sisko in this otherworldy state with the Prophets, which, while interesting in a "high concept" sort of way, is pretty slow and dull.

    Past the pilot, DS9 was, as I recall, often using stories pitched to TNG, but that TNG didn't use, so basically cast-off ideas for a significant number of episodes.

    The idea of a space station on the frontier is good, but it took a while for the writers to really find a direction. In the meantime, season one feels too much like a more static, less glitzy, less exciting version of TNG.

    The show has a good cast, and I think the non-Starfleet characters were a strong point from early on (Kira, Odo, Quark), along with O'Brien among the Starfleet cast. He's always been well-liked. But none of the Starfleet characters really stood out compared to characters like Picard and Data.

    There are reasons to like the show from early on, and to prefer it to TNG, but these aspects of the show have more of a "niche" sort of appeal: more flawed characters, a less idyllic setting, some political and religious ideas being addressed, etc.

    It was a different time as well. Early TNG, for example, is pretty awful. Early DS9 actually compares favorably to it (though that perhaps isn't saying much). But, back then, it was the first opportunity people had had to watch new Trek episodes on television since TOS. By the time DS9 aired, people were used to a much more polished product, and many of the TNG characters had already become revered by fans (in a way that they weren't necessarily, when TNG first aired).
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2013