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Deck Plans VI: The Undiscovered Bowling Alley

Something that was sifted into the background information in the last Shatner Trek novel is how the more exotic tech from Archer's time, like phase pistols and photonic torpedoes, was abandoned when the Romulan War hit, in favor of easier to produce weaponry like lasers and nukes...
Sounds as reasonable explanation as any :)

I think the temporal cold war is the point of divergence. The JJverse is where the reset button isn't pushed at the beginning of the fourth season, whereas what we saw is where things start to realign back to where they're supposed to be...
I must admit I'm not too familiar with all the ins and outs of "Enterprise", but what things did the "temporal reset" actually reset? It seemed to me that most of the Temporal Cold War activities were fairly limited in their scope of influence.
 
I use that as the escape clause for anything prior to Season Four that doesn't fit. The reset snipped that bit out, whatever that bit might be.
 
It only becomes a pain if anybody ever attempts to go through the series and figure out exactly which bit fits in with the overall chronology and which gets the boot.

It's kinda like the orientation of the bridge. Imagining it as facing forward only becomes troublesome when you start to do the math. :D
 
Fortunately, I'm not inclined to re-watch Enterprise and do this ;)

As for the bridge orientation, I think maths is the least of your worries - what about the army of Off-Centre-ers? Actually on a 1080' ship there's enough room to do a little jiggling with whatever orientation you fancy, because the bridge dome is that bit bigger. It's trying to squeeze a forward facing bridge into a 947' that starts to run out room for the turbolift. The SciFi Pub cutaway poster is a good example of this.
 
I could spend a couple of days on the errors in that SciFi Pub cutaway.

Anyhoo, the cross-section put out by the studio appears to have warp coils in the nacelles, so it looks like it's the standard general model for Earth/Federation warp drives.

I've got a preliminary sketch I worked up on an Einstein's Bagels receipt which I'll be transcribing shortly for a reworking of the nacelle's innards. As a preview, I've decided to dispense with the Bussard collectors entirely.
 
Regarding your bussard-less warp system, you're not by chance simply relocating it are you? The area around the dish has been posited as a suitable intake for both TOS and TMP (and by different people). Unfortunately this notion never seems to have made it onto blueprints.

Or are you ditching the “collect ya fuel” aspect altogether?
 
There's nothing canonical about the Constitution class having Bussards (truth be told, the first time we have anything on screen about any ship having 'em is the E-D), and we've seen the same swirly domes on ships that we can be pretty safe in assuming don't have that feature, so I'm really not all that worried about dumping the ramscoops altogether, never mind taking them out of the nacelles.

Besides, the Bussards have nothing to do with the warp drive. Tradition just puts them both in the nacelles, but in function, they really have nothing to do with each other.
 
There's nothing canonical about the Constitution class having Bussards (truth be told, the first time we have anything on screen about any ship having 'em is the E-D),
Yep, very true. It was widely presumed, yes, but nothing "canonical."
and we've seen the same swirly domes on ships that we can be pretty safe in assuming don't have that feature,
There, I have to part company with you... I see no indication that any ship which has "swirly domes" didn't have bussard-type collection capabilities.

Remember, the shuttlecraft had domes for the "nosecones" of their nacelles, but those domes certainly never had any "swirly-ness."

The "pheonix" had "glowy domes" but not "swirly domes" and lets be fair, we have no idea if the "pheonix" might have been collecting fuel... there is no "canonical" reason to assume otherwise.

What other ships are you referring to?
so I'm really not all that worried about dumping the ramscoops altogether, never mind taking them out of the nacelles.
A short-range vessel, within easy and frequent "fill-er-up" range of a variety of bases, might be able to get by without the ability to harvest fuel along the way, but I don't buy that long-range space travel is remotely practical without some form of "refueling along the way" involved. We're talking about truly tremendous amounts of energy... and even with 100% conversion by E=mc^2, you'd run out of gas pretty quickly.

Now, what the system is by which this ship "refuels en-route" may be subject to debate, but I just can't accept that it has to carry its own fuel supply at all times. Not with the sort of ships we see in Trek, anyway.
Besides, the Bussards have nothing to do with the warp drive. Tradition just puts them both in the nacelles, but in function, they really have nothing to do with each other.
Well, as I spend more time thinking about this, I'm leaning toward them being a "Reese Peanut-butter Cup" solution... two great tastes that taste great together.

That is... the nacelles are doing something to the fabric of space/time, in very much the same way that gravity affects the fabric of space/time (or rather, that MASS affects the fabric of space/time, with gravity being the result of that mass acting on space/time).

If the front end of he nacelle is looking like a very sharp "singularity" well, you can easily imagine any mass in a conical region in front of the ship being drawn towards the nacelle front... no need to project a "forcefield cone" or jump through any similar hoops. The "warp drive field" is, in fact, the collection method, in other words.

If that's the case, it makes practical sense to locate the hydrogen collector (aka "bussard device") where the majority of hydrogen will be drawn towards, doesn't it?

Alternatively, you might argue that the deflector is the best place to collect hydrogen from... but that presupposes that the deflector is a continuous beam, not a "pulse-based" device. Everything we've seen relating to the deflector (from TMP onwards) is either entirely ambiguous about how it operates or infers a pulse-based system. It does seem silly to be perpetually projecting a massive high-energy field in front of the ship if it has nothing which it needs to be doing at that moment, doesn't it?

I'm still working out a few of the details, but I think that the most practical place for the hydrogen collection is always at the front of the warp drive. Other races may not do this... but they seem less efficient overall (see the Klingons, who have three front-facing intakes... and probably much larger ratios of fuel-to-overall-mass than a multipurpose ship like the Enterprise). And they'd still be relying on the gas being attracted to the region in front of the ship by the warp drive field... they'd just be less efficient at scooping it up!
 
The Phoenix didn't even go out as far as Mars, so Bussards would be next to useless. And, IIRC, as the warp nacelles are getting ready for the jump, there's a version of that fanblade effect starting up under those domes.

Also, there are a few times in TOS, particularly in "The Doomsday Machine", where conserving fuel is a major concern. If the ship was equipped with some version of a Bussard ramscoop, then why the concern about conserving fuel? One of the benefits of a Bussard system is the faster you go, the more fuel you gather.
 
Interstellar clouds of hydrogen have very low density, a starship may have to be moving at warp speed to gather enough gas to make it worth activating the bussard collector. Because of the solar wind, the necessary density might not exist inside of a star system. On the other hand the bussard collector might gather a star's solar wind as fuel.

I've got those, and nice as they are, I need some internal layouts of the nacelles from something resembling an official source.
Maybe one of these can help.

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3594/starfleetvesselenterpri.jpg

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/3594/starfleetvesselenterpri.jpg

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3594/starfleetvesselenterpri.jpghttp://img248.imageshack.us/i/starfleetvesselenterpri.jpg
 
Worked fine for me. And, y'know, they just might be useful.

Thinking back on Cary's points, I think there might be a middle ground.

It's quite possible that the swirly bits aren't specifically a Bussard collector, but because of the nature of the warp drive, it acts as one, and the collection of interstellar hydrogen is done as much for filtering the collected hydrogen out of the process, so the warp drive can do its job, as it is for supplementing the onboard fuel supply.

In fact, I know have a better explanation for those three bits on the underside of the dome; those are the hydrogen collectors, siphoning off the stray hydrogen that wanders in, so that the nacelles don't become a duranium-hulled zeppelin waiting for a spark at the wrong time, and sending it off to be distilled into something useful.
 
Only PURE space-time in your nacelles, eh? It's an interesting direction, I shall certainly stick on this channel.

The pictures also worked fine for me.

Regarding your Doomsday Machine example, it wasn't until the warp drive was knocked out that Spock started bitching about how much fuel they had left. This may suggest that the ramscoop effect is not independant of but in fact a by-product of the warp drive; with it gone they can't scoop up hydrogen to refuel the impulse drive.
 
Only PURE space-time in your nacelles, eh? It's an interesting direction, I shall certainly stick on this channel.

The pictures also worked fine for me.

Regarding your Doomsday Machine example, it wasn't until the warp drive was knocked out that Spock started bitching about how much fuel they had left. This may suggest that the ramscoop effect is not independant of but in fact a by-product of the warp drive; with it gone they can't scoop up hydrogen to refuel the impulse drive.
Yes, that was one of the issues I had considered.

Although... even if they were working, if the ship was moving purely at sublight (and this is assuming that "impulse" is sublight only, which is at best highly debatable at this point!) it would not be collecting as much fuel as it would be at warp... many orders of magnitude less... and it would be "burning" (really, reacting in a fusion reaction, but you take my meaning I hope!) fuel at a much faster rate to produce similar amounts of energy and propulsion. So this doesn't inherently REQUIRE the collectors to require active warp drive, though it does sort of infer it.
 
Interstellar clouds of hydrogen have very low density, a starship may have to be moving at warp speed to gather enough gas to make it worth activating the bussard collector. Because of the solar wind, the necessary density might not exist inside of a star system. On the other hand the bussard collector might gather a star's solar wind as fuel.

I've got those, and nice as they are, I need some internal layouts of the nacelles from something resembling an official source.
Maybe one of these can help.

http://img248.imageshack.us/img248/3594/starfleetvesselenterpri.jpg

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/3594/starfleetvesselenterpri.jpg

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3594/starfleetvesselenterpri.jpg


T'Girl,
Could I ask where those scans came from and if you have any more. You may reply via PM if you like.
Thanks.
 
...this is assuming that "impulse" is sublight only, which is at best highly debatable...
There's a lot of indicators that (in TOS) the impulse drive is a FTL system, although of course vastly less inefficient than the warp drive.
On the occasions where the ship is in a hurry at impulse, fuel suddenly becomes an issue ("Doomsday Machine", "Mudd's Women").
There is one odd exception - "Paradise Syndrome", where the ship is moving at (presumably) top impulse speed for 59 days straight. Perhaps the ship had received an upgrade by then?
 
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