DC's Going to Reboot ... Again? I'm Sorry, Rebirth.
- Thread starter Ryan Thomas Riddle
- Start date
Oh, joy, another bloody DC reboot/Crisis/whatever. What's this, like the 6th or 7th one so far? This week?
(they say it's not a 'reboot' or 'relaunch', but a 'rebirth'. Whatever! It's all the same in the end. This is getting out of control...)
At least some of these constant unrelenting DC Crises or Reboots or Rebirths or whatever the hell they're calling it this week, were supposed to be exactly that. At which point does this simply become silly?
1995?
To me I have to wonder if they just need to reboot who is at the top instead of keeping the same people in place yet rebranding so much.
Personally I liked the New 52. The quality of various books varied and I didn't care for all the costume changes, but I like that DC understands they've got some issues and tried to address them. I can't say they addressed them well, but at least they made an attempt. However then Convergence happened and it seems you got a jacked up continuity which likely won't help bring new readers in. I think for the next reboot they need to either go back pre-New 52 or just completely reboot the line, all books (not holding back on Green Lantern and Batman) to make them all more contemporary.
Personally I liked the New 52. The quality of various books varied and I didn't care for all the costume changes, but I like that DC understands they've got some issues and tried to address them. I can't say they addressed them well, but at least they made an attempt. However then Convergence happened and it seems you got a jacked up continuity which likely won't help bring new readers in. I think for the next reboot they need to either go back pre-New 52 or just completely reboot the line, all books (not holding back on Green Lantern and Batman) to make them all more contemporary.
I agree that DC isn't always following Marvel. If anything I think some of Marvel's recent rebooting was in response to the New 52.
You know what? I just looked for articles about this, and it seems the only thing DC themselves have actually released is an image containing the single word "Rebirth" against a blue curtain. Everything else is pure Internet speculation. We have no actual idea what this is. IGN covers the possibilities well:
As I said, this is more likely to be an overhaul of the available books and lineups than an in-universe change of continuity. Or maybe "Rebirth" means an event where currently-dead characters are brought back -- hardly unprecedented in comics. In any case, all we actually know so far is a single word.
As I said, this is more likely to be an overhaul of the available books and lineups than an in-universe change of continuity. Or maybe "Rebirth" means an event where currently-dead characters are brought back -- hardly unprecedented in comics. In any case, all we actually know so far is a single word.
Is that article really where all the speculation came from. CBR surely must have other sources then that in order to make the claims they made on their page? Although, everything that is stated as happening in other articles are speculated at here.
Of course not -- that's the opposite of what I'm claiming. I did a general search and checked multiple sites, and they all confirmed that the single word "Rebirth" is the only thing that's been officially released by DC. But the Internet has been going insane with unfounded speculation. I posted that IGN article because it struck me as a more reasonable and measured discussion of the possibilities, as an antidote to the overreactions coming from elsewhere on the Internet.
Hello I'm N-121973 and I'm a comics addict. I thought I'd start my little opus off like that because I can't really offer up any better excuse to explain why I didn't stop collecting DC's principal line of Comics when Flashpoint came along. I can't even claim that I fell for all the flannel that Dan DiDio and co gave about making the comics accessible by starting again.
The fact is what DC has needed for sometime is a complete from the beginning reboot but DiDio and co weren't prepared to do that, why? Because it would have meant reducing - possibly dramatically - the number of characters and by extension, titles to sell. That further constrained what they could and couldn't due with their so-called 'reboot' having to start some five years after the debut of key characters like Superman and Batman to accommodate the existence and establishment of Nightwing, Robin, Supergirl, Teen Titans et al. Thus an opportunity was passed over. The constant company-wide crossovers like Forever Evil and Convergence which were clearly attempts to generate more income from the fans merely contributed to the very confusion that they claimed they wished to do away with in favour of accessibility. Furthermore changes made in particular to Superman with alterations to his costume, killing off the Kents (how original) and wiping the Lois and Clark marriage from existence didn't exactly endear TPTB at DC to me.
So what should happen (IMNSHO)? What should have been done after Crisis on Infinite Earths 30 years ago, a complete fresh start as I alluded to above. I like how superheroes and their world are portrayed in TV shows such as those that comprise the Arrowverse, its how I would do it on the comic book page company-wide. Some of the more fantastical (and quite frankly absurd) aspects of the DCU can be toned down, or even eliminated (yes I know we're talking about a universe where there is a human-looking alien who can fly and see and hear through walls). An example, in the comics the Royal Flush Gang wore these ridiculous outfits, designed to make them look like human playing cards, In the Arrow episode they were introduced in, they wore regular clothes with white hockey masks containing the playing card motif. To me that looks much more realistic and threatening.
But that's just a specific example. From a broader stand point the problem with comics is that they are intend to go and on and on for decades within the same continuity. As a result it is very much the exception rather than the rule that people die and stay dead. For every Adam Grant there are dozens of (post crisis) Jason Todds. They're either resurrected via some outlandish or convoluted way or they never died to begin with. How many times have the Joker or Lex Luthor supposedly died?
So what would I do? I'd relaunch from scratch with a finite timeline, that is to say I would have this continuity last no more than ten years, at the end of it the storylines wrap up and there's another reboot. Naturally this finite timeline would be communicated to the fans from the outset so they know what they are getting into and I wouldn't be making false claims about accessibility. The characters can therefore be free to age at a rate of one year every 12 issues and characters can die and stay dead or go through all manner of permanent chances with all the dramatic advantages that brings. There can be an overarching story arc spanning the ten years, with a typical issue comprising an 'A' plot with a 'B' plot that moves the story arch along together with the odd story or issue where the 'B' plot is elevated to 'A' plot status. This could develop nicely over the course of 120 issues plus annuals and miniseries. Think TV shows like Arrow, Flash, Supergirl, Gotham or for that matter Hawaii 5-0 or Nu Doctor Who.
So how would it work?
1. The existing continuity begun under the auspices of New 52 ends (naturally).
2. Beginning in June (I'm basing this on the dates given in DiDio's tweet) a new 6-part bi-weekly miniseries - possibly comprising double length issues - is published that sets out the history of the DCU from the Big Bang (or maybe even before) until 2016.
3. Following the release of issue 1 in early June, issue 1 of Green Lantern Corps is published and following the release of issue 5 in early August and issue 6 in late August, the publication of issue 1 of Jonah Hex and issue 1 of Justice Society of America respectively (because this segues nicely with the material and topics covered in those issues of History of the DCU or HoDCU).
4. With the conclusion of HoDCU comes a new profusion of titles - all issue 1 - to join the three monthlies already released in the following order:
Action Comics, Detective Comics, Sensation Comics, Green Arrow, The Flash, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Swamp Thing, Legion of Superheroes. NB that for those characters with multiple titles eg Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman (possibly Green Lantern as well) the continuity flows from title to title e.g. a story begins in Action Comics and continues in Superman and so on as with the triangle numbering system on Superman comics in the 1990s.
5. These would all be origin stories, but before you groan about 'Not another origin of' whoever, whereas in the past these were self contained stories or miniseries - think Man of Steel or Birthright for Superman or Year One for Batman - set in the past with big time jumps after or during the story to get us to the present, it would be an on going story so you would get to see characters develop their skills and relationships etc rather than they're miraculously firmly established and fully formed with the very next story. You could also cover things such as the social and cultural impact of the appearance of Superman or Green Lantern on such things as stock markets, religion etc assuming that there has been no overt alien presence on Earth prior to Action or GL #1.
6. During the first half of 2017 a new sub plot can appear much like the thread in the Phase One Marvel films that ultimately lead to Avengers Assemble. This sub plot can be followed solely in the titles you personally collect, you don't need to buy everything and will culminate in the publication in June 2017 of Justice League issue 1.
7. In the months and possibly years that follow other titles could follow such as Suicide Squad, Blue Beetle and depending on story developments in the Batman or Superman titles Teen Titans, Batgirl, Supergirl, Catwoman, Birds of Prey.
Thank you for listening to me.
The fact is what DC has needed for sometime is a complete from the beginning reboot but DiDio and co weren't prepared to do that, why? Because it would have meant reducing - possibly dramatically - the number of characters and by extension, titles to sell. That further constrained what they could and couldn't due with their so-called 'reboot' having to start some five years after the debut of key characters like Superman and Batman to accommodate the existence and establishment of Nightwing, Robin, Supergirl, Teen Titans et al. Thus an opportunity was passed over. The constant company-wide crossovers like Forever Evil and Convergence which were clearly attempts to generate more income from the fans merely contributed to the very confusion that they claimed they wished to do away with in favour of accessibility. Furthermore changes made in particular to Superman with alterations to his costume, killing off the Kents (how original) and wiping the Lois and Clark marriage from existence didn't exactly endear TPTB at DC to me.
So what should happen (IMNSHO)? What should have been done after Crisis on Infinite Earths 30 years ago, a complete fresh start as I alluded to above. I like how superheroes and their world are portrayed in TV shows such as those that comprise the Arrowverse, its how I would do it on the comic book page company-wide. Some of the more fantastical (and quite frankly absurd) aspects of the DCU can be toned down, or even eliminated (yes I know we're talking about a universe where there is a human-looking alien who can fly and see and hear through walls). An example, in the comics the Royal Flush Gang wore these ridiculous outfits, designed to make them look like human playing cards, In the Arrow episode they were introduced in, they wore regular clothes with white hockey masks containing the playing card motif. To me that looks much more realistic and threatening.
But that's just a specific example. From a broader stand point the problem with comics is that they are intend to go and on and on for decades within the same continuity. As a result it is very much the exception rather than the rule that people die and stay dead. For every Adam Grant there are dozens of (post crisis) Jason Todds. They're either resurrected via some outlandish or convoluted way or they never died to begin with. How many times have the Joker or Lex Luthor supposedly died?
So what would I do? I'd relaunch from scratch with a finite timeline, that is to say I would have this continuity last no more than ten years, at the end of it the storylines wrap up and there's another reboot. Naturally this finite timeline would be communicated to the fans from the outset so they know what they are getting into and I wouldn't be making false claims about accessibility. The characters can therefore be free to age at a rate of one year every 12 issues and characters can die and stay dead or go through all manner of permanent chances with all the dramatic advantages that brings. There can be an overarching story arc spanning the ten years, with a typical issue comprising an 'A' plot with a 'B' plot that moves the story arch along together with the odd story or issue where the 'B' plot is elevated to 'A' plot status. This could develop nicely over the course of 120 issues plus annuals and miniseries. Think TV shows like Arrow, Flash, Supergirl, Gotham or for that matter Hawaii 5-0 or Nu Doctor Who.
So how would it work?
1. The existing continuity begun under the auspices of New 52 ends (naturally).
2. Beginning in June (I'm basing this on the dates given in DiDio's tweet) a new 6-part bi-weekly miniseries - possibly comprising double length issues - is published that sets out the history of the DCU from the Big Bang (or maybe even before) until 2016.
3. Following the release of issue 1 in early June, issue 1 of Green Lantern Corps is published and following the release of issue 5 in early August and issue 6 in late August, the publication of issue 1 of Jonah Hex and issue 1 of Justice Society of America respectively (because this segues nicely with the material and topics covered in those issues of History of the DCU or HoDCU).
4. With the conclusion of HoDCU comes a new profusion of titles - all issue 1 - to join the three monthlies already released in the following order:
Action Comics, Detective Comics, Sensation Comics, Green Arrow, The Flash, Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Swamp Thing, Legion of Superheroes. NB that for those characters with multiple titles eg Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman (possibly Green Lantern as well) the continuity flows from title to title e.g. a story begins in Action Comics and continues in Superman and so on as with the triangle numbering system on Superman comics in the 1990s.
5. These would all be origin stories, but before you groan about 'Not another origin of' whoever, whereas in the past these were self contained stories or miniseries - think Man of Steel or Birthright for Superman or Year One for Batman - set in the past with big time jumps after or during the story to get us to the present, it would be an on going story so you would get to see characters develop their skills and relationships etc rather than they're miraculously firmly established and fully formed with the very next story. You could also cover things such as the social and cultural impact of the appearance of Superman or Green Lantern on such things as stock markets, religion etc assuming that there has been no overt alien presence on Earth prior to Action or GL #1.
6. During the first half of 2017 a new sub plot can appear much like the thread in the Phase One Marvel films that ultimately lead to Avengers Assemble. This sub plot can be followed solely in the titles you personally collect, you don't need to buy everything and will culminate in the publication in June 2017 of Justice League issue 1.
7. In the months and possibly years that follow other titles could follow such as Suicide Squad, Blue Beetle and depending on story developments in the Batman or Superman titles Teen Titans, Batgirl, Supergirl, Catwoman, Birds of Prey.
Thank you for listening to me.
It's stupid stuff like this that made me lose interest in both DC and Marvel comics, there are always reboots, rebirths, revelations, retcons ... whatever they call it, the motto seems to be "change, change, change", even if it's just a new creative team coming in they immediately start changing things, forget old storylines, replace the supporting cast ...
The thing their predecessor did that had a huge impact but they dislike? Retcon the shit out of it!
It makes everything that happens meaningless, why should I give a rat's ass if Steve Rogers is murdered if it's a foregone conclusion that he'll be back in a year or two?
It wouldn't even be such a huge a problem if they'd do actual hard reboots every five years for example, give a creative team 60 issues to tell a complete story and then start over. I'd be fine with that but not with the "semi reboot but not really because we want to keep some things but not others" approach and the pretense that it's somehow still all connected, the smaller changes that happen in between company wide events are even more annoying.
And don't do a crisis or something similar to explain your reboot, that's the most unnecessary crap ever invented. If you want to reboot just do it, pull the plug and start over! Just like that!
It's not like they don't do it like that in other media. I remember when I was a kid and Superboy ended in spring 1992 and Lois and Clark began in the fall of 1993. You know what they didn't do in between? A six part Superboyman crisis mini series that has Gerard Christopher's superboy accidentally break the multiverse by sneezing on purple kryptonite after which he goes on an epic adventure guided by stock footage appearances of Christopher Reeve and George Reeves smiling from the reality clouds and it ends with Clark and Lana looking at an image of Teri Hatcher Lois appearing, wondering who she is when they suddenly notice Stacy Haiduk Lana begins to fade away and Gerard Christopher morphs into Dean Cain who's suddenly back on the Kent farm in the new universe and tells his parents that he just got a new job at the Daily Planet. "We'll miss you Clark!" "You'll see me every week, ma! *wink at the camera*"
The thing their predecessor did that had a huge impact but they dislike? Retcon the shit out of it!
It makes everything that happens meaningless, why should I give a rat's ass if Steve Rogers is murdered if it's a foregone conclusion that he'll be back in a year or two?
It wouldn't even be such a huge a problem if they'd do actual hard reboots every five years for example, give a creative team 60 issues to tell a complete story and then start over. I'd be fine with that but not with the "semi reboot but not really because we want to keep some things but not others" approach and the pretense that it's somehow still all connected, the smaller changes that happen in between company wide events are even more annoying.
And don't do a crisis or something similar to explain your reboot, that's the most unnecessary crap ever invented. If you want to reboot just do it, pull the plug and start over! Just like that!
It's not like they don't do it like that in other media. I remember when I was a kid and Superboy ended in spring 1992 and Lois and Clark began in the fall of 1993. You know what they didn't do in between? A six part Superboyman crisis mini series that has Gerard Christopher's superboy accidentally break the multiverse by sneezing on purple kryptonite after which he goes on an epic adventure guided by stock footage appearances of Christopher Reeve and George Reeves smiling from the reality clouds and it ends with Clark and Lana looking at an image of Teri Hatcher Lois appearing, wondering who she is when they suddenly notice Stacy Haiduk Lana begins to fade away and Gerard Christopher morphs into Dean Cain who's suddenly back on the Kent farm in the new universe and tells his parents that he just got a new job at the Daily Planet. "We'll miss you Clark!" "You'll see me every week, ma! *wink at the camera*"
We have... one word. "Rebirth." Everything else is conjecture, Internet fandom whipping itself into a self-generated frenzy. Which is no doubt what DC knew would happen when they leaked a single word.
In the past, DC has used the word "Rebirth" specifically for characters who are being reintroduced to continuity after they have died.
So what if we only have one word? It changes nothing, even if this specific "rebirth" for some reason is not some kind of reboot/retcon (but we all know it is) it doesn't mean there won't be one sooner rather than later, it doesn't mean new creative teams won't start by taking a sledgehammer to the series to make it fit what they want to do etc., all of that has happened countless times and there's no reason to believe they'll suddenly stop doing it.
It means we don't actually know what they're doing, so it's pointless to worry about it until we have some real information. The title of this thread is a guess, nothing more, and it's probably an incorrect guess. I'm just trying to counteract rumor and paranoia by clarifying what we actually know -- which is a single word -- and what we don't know -- which is absolutely everything else.
There is a bi-weekly digital comic book tie in for the show launching tomorrow.
Now that we are in to pure speculation on what this could be, and I am still thinking that Rebirth refers to somebody (ies) coming back from the dead, is there anybody in the new 52 who has died in the stories or prior to the 52 launch who DC might want to bring back? Alternatively, is there someone who will die during the Darkseid War storyline? Return of the Guardians for example?
Purely speculative and lacking in any first-hand knowledge of the current state of affairs, to me the title "Rebirth" suggests that perhaps it could be getting rid of the "New 52" version of things and restoring a more classic version of the DC continuity.
I remember making that joke on the new 52 thread back when that reboot started.