DC letting Superman go?

[darkwing_duck1]

But hey, maybe I just don't understand it. Educate me. Can you explain why DC started paying Siegel and Shuster pensions and health insurance in the 70's even though they were doing no work for them at that time?

Why did they do that in your opinion? Where, exactly, does that fit into your "sold a convenience store" analogy?

Please try to fit it in there somehow, I'm curious to see how that fits.

I don't know how it fits in the analogy, but the real life reason was that the producers of the first Chris Reeve Superman film demanded it in their contract.

I predict that this is going to become more widespread, Marvel is about to go hammer and tongs with the Kirby estate over a bunch of HIS stuff the estate is trying to reclaim copyright on.

 

[RobertScorpio]

They dug up the Earth-2 Superman. The Golden Age Superman is something differrent.

I know why you're saying that, but the history of the Earth-2 Superman is effectively the history of the Golden Age Superman. It's a difference that makes almost no difference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_(Earth-Two)#Fictional_character_history

The Golden Age Superman has more in common with the "Standard" Superman than the E2 version. For most of the Golden Age, Superman fought a bald Luthor and worked at the Daily Planet. Most of his powers were developed in the Golden Age as well. Superboy and the change from L to El happend then as well. THe E-2 version is based on a year or two of material from the earliest comics.

"It was eventually established that there were two Supermen.[1] The "current", Silver Age Superman was Kal-El from Earth-One, while the Golden Age Superman was Kal-L from Earth-Two."...

Doesn't get any clearer than this. Yes, you can nitpick and say it wasn't, but if that's how DC saw it, and writers saw it as well, then that's the way it is generally accepted.

Rob

 

[Nerys Myk]

I know why you're saying that, but the history of the Earth-2 Superman is effectively the history of the Golden Age Superman. It's a difference that makes almost no difference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman_(Earth-Two)#Fictional_character_history

The Golden Age Superman has more in common with the "Standard" Superman than the E2 version. For most of the Golden Age, Superman fought a bald Luthor and worked at the Daily Planet. Most of his powers were developed in the Golden Age as well. Superboy and the change from L to El happend then as well. THe E-2 version is based on a year or two of material from the earliest comics.

"It was eventually established that there were two Supermen.[1] The "current", Silver Age Superman was Kal-El from Earth-One, while the Golden Age Superman was Kal-L from Earth-Two."...

Doesn't get any clearer than this. Yes, you can nitpick and say it wasn't, but if that's how DC saw it, and writers saw it as well, then that's the way it is generally accepted.

Rob

Established in the 1960s, up to that point there was one Superman. Look at the source material. (the comics) The guy in the comics published in the 40s worked at the Planet and fought a bald Luthor. Thats much more important than a continuity implant nearly 30 years after the fact.
ETA: What DC and its writers establish is subject to change. A few years ago they were saying the Clark Kent Superboy never existed and was never in the LSH, guess who's back and in the LSH? The E-2 Superman is a patchwork creation built from remnents left over from Superman's beginnings

 

[Ryan Thomas Riddle]

The Golden Age Superman has more in common with the "Standard" Superman than the E2 version. For most of the Golden Age, Superman fought a bald Luthor and worked at the Daily Planet. Most of his powers were developed in the Golden Age as well. Superboy and the change from L to El happend then as well. THe E-2 version is based on a year or two of material from the earliest comics.

"It was eventually established that there were two Supermen.[1] The "current", Silver Age Superman was Kal-El from Earth-One, while the Golden Age Superman was Kal-L from Earth-Two."...

Doesn't get any clearer than this. Yes, you can nitpick and say it wasn't, but if that's how DC saw it, and writers saw it as well, then that's the way it is generally accepted.

Rob

Established in the 1960s, up to that point there was one Superman. Look at the source material. (the comics) The guy in the comics published in the 40s worked at the Planet and fought a bald Luthor. Thats much more important than a continuity implant nearly 30 years after the fact.
ETA: What DC and its writers establish is subject to change. A few years ago they were saying the Clark Kent Superboy never existed and was never in the LSH, guess who's back and in the LSH? The E-2 Superman is a patchwork creation built from remnents left over from Superman's beginnings

A much better source for the subtle and not-so subtle differences between the Golden Age Superman and Earth-2 Superman.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

It'd be like the founding family which invented "Coca-Cola" which became the company we know today....
wanting the product/company back... ain't happening...

Well, you're wrong on all counts.

The Superman case has happened - because it should. So folks who don't respect or understand intellectual property rights will just have to live with it.

I like the latter-day versions of Superman and love what Johns has done with Green Lantern - absolutely love it.

 

[AviTrek]

The best solution to this issue is for Congress to de-extend copyright so that Superman will be public domain as he should be. It's unlikely to happen, though.

that ain't gonna happen... and you can thank the riaa for most of that...

Actually, you can thank Disney for most of it. They can't risk Mickey Mouse entering the public domain which is why they pay whatever it takes to extend copyright whenever the Mickey copyright is about to expire.

 

[USS Triumphant]

"It was eventually established that there were two Supermen.[1] The "current", Silver Age Superman was Kal-El from Earth-One, while the Golden Age Superman was Kal-L from Earth-Two."...

Doesn't get any clearer than this. Yes, you can nitpick and say it wasn't, but if that's how DC saw it, and writers saw it as well, then that's the way it is generally accepted.

Thank you.

And, there's also the fact that I'm not just saying they are the same after reading a Wikipedia article. I was there. By which I mean, I was a well-funded DC junkie growing up, and I've actually read pretty much ALL of it, from Action Comics #1 and Detective Comics #1, through Dial 'H' for Hero and Superman's Pal Jimmy Olson and Justice League of America and Kamandi: The Last Boy On Earth and Teen Titans and Warlord and Amethyst and All Star Squadron and House of Mystery and OMAC and on and on, almost EVERYTHING up until shortly after they used Damage to take the place of the Big Bang that Hal Jordan had tampered with. I even - God help me - read ALL of that Bloodlines CRAP shortly before that. And I have even kept a hand in the whole time since then, but just occasionally and without much enthusiasm.

I know who the Golden Age Superman is, mmmkay? He, Spock, and Optimus Prime practically raised me.

 

[wamdue]

The best solution to this issue is for Congress to de-extend copyright so that Superman will be public domain as he should be. It's unlikely to happen, though.

that ain't gonna happen... and you can thank the riaa for most of that...

Actually, you can thank Disney for most of it. They can't risk Mickey Mouse entering the public domain which is why they pay whatever it takes to extend copyright whenever the Mickey copyright is about to expire.

do kids really love Mickey that much these days? I mean when was the last time he had a movie out?

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

When I was a kid I disliked the way Wayne Boring drew Superman - I first encountered Curt Swan's more sophisticated style, and when I began reading back issues from the 1950s the art didn't appeal to me as much. It seemed crude, and...weird.

But the stories! The 1950s Superman was heavily influenced by science fiction and fantasy pulps, and folks from other planets dropped in just about every month (not just Kryptonians). All manner of aliens and inventions.

Now when I see a Wayne Boring panel, whether it's one of those one-quarter portraits of Clark Kent with his glasses apparently levitating about half-an-inch off of his nose or a visitor from the future or Krypton wearing a plastic disk on his head at a jaunty angle I tear up with nostalgic longing.

 

[Nerys Myk]

"It was eventually established that there were two Supermen.[1] The "current", Silver Age Superman was Kal-El from Earth-One, while the Golden Age Superman was Kal-L from Earth-Two."...

Doesn't get any clearer than this. Yes, you can nitpick and say it wasn't, but if that's how DC saw it, and writers saw it as well, then that's the way it is generally accepted.

Thank you.

And, there's also the fact that I'm not just saying they are the same after reading a Wikipedia article. I was there. By which I mean, I was a well-funded DC junkie growing up, and I've actually read pretty much ALL of it, from Action Comics #1 and Detective Comics #1, through Dial 'H' for Hero and Superman's Pal Jimmy Olson and Justice League of America and Kamandi: The Last Boy On Earth and Teen Titans and Warlord and Amethyst and All Star Squadron and House of Mystery and OMAC and on and on, almost EVERYTHING up until shortly after they used Damage to take the place of the Big Bang that Hal Jordan had tampered with. I even - God help me - read ALL of that Bloodlines CRAP shortly before that. And I have even kept a hand in the whole time since then, but just occasionally and without much enthusiasm.

I know who the Golden Age Superman is, mmmkay? He, Spock, and Optimus Prime practically raised me.

Then you should understand why I say the Golden Age Superman isn't the Earth-2 version. At least if you go by the original published material as opposed to retcons.

 

[USS Triumphant]

Then you should understand why I say the Golden Age Superman isn't the Earth-2 version. At least if you go by the original published material as opposed to retcons.

 

[Nerys Myk]

No! Not Comet!!!!!

 

[A beaker full of death]

Then you should understand why I say the Golden Age Superman isn't the Earth-2 version. At least if you go by the original published material as opposed to retcons.

Sure he was. We just didn't know it at the time.
Of course, as with Batman, most of the later Golden Age stuff has elements of the silver age incarnations which were never part of Earth 2. Retcons were inevitable the moment Barry Allen was born.
But I for one don't mind.

Similarly, Marvel bent over sideways to explain Captain America stories from the 1950s. While it made for some interesting storylines, it's simply impossible to explain away all the inevitable inconsistencies. That's why there are No-Prizes. For my money, they shouldn't bother. Trek canon nazism is nothing compared to the comic books.

I sure do miss Earth 1, though. Make mine WGBS!

 

[Nerys Myk]

Then you should understand why I say the Golden Age Superman isn't the Earth-2 version. At least if you go by the original published material as opposed to retcons.

Sure he was. We just didn't know it at the time.
Of course, as with Batman, most of the later Golden Age stuff has elements of the silver age incarnations which were never part of Earth 2. Retcons were inevitable the moment Barry Allen was born.
But I for one don't mind.

I sure do miss Earth 1, though. Make mine WGBS!

As I said before, the E2 guy worked at the Daily Star for his entire career and his Luthor always had a full head of red hair. The guy in comics published in the Golden Age worked at the Daily Planet starting in 1940 and started fighting a bald Luthor in 1941. Gotta go with what's in the books. Surely, they didn't get it wrong?

(kicks the horse)

 

[A beaker full of death]

^ the writers on earth prime got confused, that's all.

 

[Nerys Myk]

They'd better watch it. Superboy-Prime is crazy and hates writers who screw things up.

 

[Vendikarr]

do kids really love Mickey that much these days? I mean when was the last time he had a movie out?

It's not about the kids. MM is the foundation stone of the empire. They can't ever let anyone else dilute the brand by making cartoons based on Steamboat Willy.

 

[ClayinCA]

I sure do miss Earth 1, though. Make mine WGBS!

Agreed on both counts!

(What on Earth is your avatar pic from, beaker? It's very...um...well, awesome is the only word that comes to mind...)

 

[wamdue]

do kids really love Mickey that much these days? I mean when was the last time he had a movie out?

It's not about the kids. MM is the foundation stone of the empire. They can't ever let anyone else dilute the brand by making cartoons based on Steamboat Willy.

again Steamboat Willy is cartoon history, plenty of companys have ripped it off, im not sure what revenue Mickey Mouse really generates for Disney.

A beaker full of death what Star Trek episode is your avatar from, I dont recall it.

 

[Professor Zoom]

do kids really love Mickey that much these days? I mean when was the last time he had a movie out?

It's not about the kids. MM is the foundation stone of the empire. They can't ever let anyone else dilute the brand by making cartoons based on Steamboat Willy.

again Steamboat Willy is cartoon history, plenty of companys have ripped it off, im not sure what revenue Mickey Mouse really generates for Disney.

A beaker full of death what Star Trek episode is your avatar from, I dont recall it.

Mickey Mouse is, by all intents and purposes, Disney. He was the companies first success and essentially the logo/mascot.

It would be a disaster if they lost control over it. (Well, from their point of view a disaster.)

And WHAT company has ripped off Steamboat Willy?

A mouse character isn't what they would lose. If Mickey went into the public domain people would be able to use the literal picture of Mickey for whatever purpose they wanted.

(Though, I'm not sure if trademark would be able to protect Disney...)