Better days. A lot of current creators of superhero media seem to have no idea how to make non-costumed characters interesting, or to recognize what an important role they can play in these stories.
DC Comics Ongoing Discussion
- Thread starter theenglish
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I just finished reading all of Peter David's Supergirl series, and it was really, really good. It never seems to get mentioned nowadays, but its a unique and generally well written run, and it lasted for 80 issues which is a ridiculously long run by todays standards. Matrix/Linda Danvers is my favorite (non Power Girl) version of Supergirl now. The character goes through so much change but it really works well, the characters in general in the series are a highlight, both Supergirl/Linda and her supporting cast (including a very unique take on Comet the Super horse).
Honestly it sucks that it got cancelled so that Loeb could bring back the Kara Zor-El version of Supergirl, whose actual comic run right after her return was apparently a very mixed run with a lot of different writers. Peter david managing to be the solo writer for 80 issues is something I wish was more common nowadays, it really lets a writer explore a character.
Now the book wasn't flawless, Issue #23 is the dictionary definition of late 90s Centrist "Both sides are bad" politics, with Supergirl literally telling black people that they have to let white supremacists have their turn to talk without protesting (its really dire, and in the end her black best friend apologizes to her for some reason), but that only effects maybe two issues after that and then the book quickly moves on. There is a lot of religious stuff, but its more just what is happening in the story, its not Religious in a way that is trying to get the readers to be religious. I'd say it uses religion like its a supernatural force, think Neil gaiman's Sandman use of religious characters and stories instead of "Gods Not Dead" stuff (in fact I'm 100% sure that very religious people would not enjoy the more biblical elements). That actually brings a lot of interesting elements to the story and character, with her being part human, part Matrix and part Earthborn Angel of Fire (I really like that she has unique super powers, like flaming wings and teleportation).
Also, and its only a small thing but it is annoying, the last storyline, which is pretty great writing and concept wise, is unfortunately drawn by Ed benes. Benes is a real creep of an artist so be prepared for the last 5 issues of the run to suddenly put Linda in skimpy clothes and also have multiple scenes of high school girls in locker rooms, in short skirts, etc, because, again, Ed Benes is a creep.
Overall I'd definitely recommend it, it was a great run that I think gets unfairly forgotten because people prefer the standard Supergirl (to be clear I like the normal Supergirl too, but this run really sold me on the Matrix/Linda Danvers Supergirl).
Honestly it sucks that it got cancelled so that Loeb could bring back the Kara Zor-El version of Supergirl, whose actual comic run right after her return was apparently a very mixed run with a lot of different writers. Peter david managing to be the solo writer for 80 issues is something I wish was more common nowadays, it really lets a writer explore a character.
Now the book wasn't flawless, Issue #23 is the dictionary definition of late 90s Centrist "Both sides are bad" politics, with Supergirl literally telling black people that they have to let white supremacists have their turn to talk without protesting (its really dire, and in the end her black best friend apologizes to her for some reason), but that only effects maybe two issues after that and then the book quickly moves on. There is a lot of religious stuff, but its more just what is happening in the story, its not Religious in a way that is trying to get the readers to be religious. I'd say it uses religion like its a supernatural force, think Neil gaiman's Sandman use of religious characters and stories instead of "Gods Not Dead" stuff (in fact I'm 100% sure that very religious people would not enjoy the more biblical elements). That actually brings a lot of interesting elements to the story and character, with her being part human, part Matrix and part Earthborn Angel of Fire (I really like that she has unique super powers, like flaming wings and teleportation).
Also, and its only a small thing but it is annoying, the last storyline, which is pretty great writing and concept wise, is unfortunately drawn by Ed benes. Benes is a real creep of an artist so be prepared for the last 5 issues of the run to suddenly put Linda in skimpy clothes and also have multiple scenes of high school girls in locker rooms, in short skirts, etc, because, again, Ed Benes is a creep.
Overall I'd definitely recommend it, it was a great run that I think gets unfairly forgotten because people prefer the standard Supergirl (to be clear I like the normal Supergirl too, but this run really sold me on the Matrix/Linda Danvers Supergirl).
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Wouldn't go that far (Kara still trumps both for me), but it's indeed a very enjoyable run -- at least the two-thirds or so of it that DC has reprinted in trade, which is all I've read. Hopefully the new "DC Finest" line might get the rest of it reprinted at some point. If so, it shall be mine.
I do think the first half is a bit stronger, so maybe that effected what they collected. Apparently they forced Peter David to change her look to match the DCAU Supergirl look (which is weird, because usually the cartoon follows the latest non cartoon stuff not the other way around) and either because of that (or just as a coincidence) thats when (because of story spoilers) she gets a huge power nerf and a lot of the long running plot things get changed or resolved, leading to a still very solid, but slightly less good, second half. The final arc, which did get a trade release, is really great, though.
The whole run is on DC Universe Infinite and on Amazon digitally, which isn't my favorite way to read comics (I'm a physical comic guy when I can get it) but at least its available.
The whole run is on DC Universe Infinite and on Amazon digitally, which isn't my favorite way to read comics (I'm a physical comic guy when I can get it) but at least its available.
Yeah, I don't do comics on a screen period, and I also don't fool with floppies. Give me trades, or give me ... something else to read (which is generally fine, I have a crazy backlog as it is).
I think they didn't finish the trade releases just because DC sucks at that.
I think they didn't finish the trade releases just because DC sucks at that.
Speaking of Trades, has anyone else gotten one of the DC Compact Comics? They're (usually full mini/maxi series) trades that are approximately the same size as a standard paperback manga volume, in full color for $10 (US). They have a handful out now and seem to want to expand the line. I got All Star Superman and it looks good. I wouldn't want to get all my comics in this size/form factor, but its a great budget option and there are definitely some books I'd like to pick up in this style if they get made.
I got a lot of them, but I'm also a fan of smaller-sized formats (one of the few vintage series I collect is the DC Blue Ribbon Digest series). They work great for reading on the road, as well as - and to be honest, living alone I do a lot of reading there - on the toilet.
And, yes, you definitely get a lot of comic for your buck. I remember when DC put out a couple similar-sized collections of DCAU comics a few years ago, and it was really random collections, and never from the early Batman Adventures, definitely never from Adventures in the DC Universe, and the few Superman Adventures ones were all from the later Mark Millar-era.
These is not like that. This is prime DC graphic novels, bestsellers, really, from evergreens like Watchmen, to recent stuff like Far Sector.
And, yes, you definitely get a lot of comic for your buck. I remember when DC put out a couple similar-sized collections of DCAU comics a few years ago, and it was really random collections, and never from the early Batman Adventures, definitely never from Adventures in the DC Universe, and the few Superman Adventures ones were all from the later Mark Millar-era.
These is not like that. This is prime DC graphic novels, bestsellers, really, from evergreens like Watchmen, to recent stuff like Far Sector.
I haven't seen them, but they indeed sound like good bang for the buck. I'm sure there's a market for them, and more power to those readers and DC both. But I personally prefer a larger, more traditional format for reading graphic novels (in fact, my favorite format is the slightly oversized Deluxe Editions). Also, the idea with the Compact Comics seems mostly to be reprinting well-worn titles for the dozenth time, and if I wanted those, I'd already have them.
Those digests were my degree in the history of DC comics when I was a kid. There was a lot of content for a buck (or .95 dollars), and they did a great job of picking stories that were important in the history of the characters. I'm not sure how well DC actually planned things in advance back then, but I remember many comics in the early 80s referenced stories that appeared in the digests.
This was probably my first exposure to Batman comics as a kid. I remember reading it quite a few times.
Doing some more DC reading, I've caught up a bit with recent DC Events, having read Infinite Frontier and Dark Crisis (along with the main Dark Crisis tie-in one shots). Infinite frontier was fine. It felt more like it existed to introduce various ongoing books/stories, and the villain plan of capturing and getting rid of all the multiversal heroes was stupid, but it was decently written, had a few cool moments (like the crazy Captain Atom self destruction scene, and Roy Harper as a Black Lantern) and the art was pretty good.
I also read the Justice League Incarnate book that bridges infinite frontier and Dark crisis, and it was decent. The team composition was interesting, and it actually made me care about the Earth-23 Superman where before I kind of just thought of him as a gimmick character. The ending, with
Then there was Dark Crisis, which I actually liked way more then I thought. Partially this is because, unlike the horrible Metal/Death metal Events, Dark Crisis has a story connected with COIE but it doesn't shit all over the original Crisis like Metal/DM does. Pariah, who caused the original Crisis, is trying to recreate the infinite Multiverse using the power of The Great Darkness. To this end he's "killed" the Justice League, and possessed a bunch of Earth villains (lead by a possessed Deathstroke) to basically defeat Earth-0's heroes while Pariah uses the captured Justice League as part of his plans.
The stuff with Pariah and the Earth's heroes vs villains was generally great. Nightwing in particular got some great moments, especially when confronting Deathstroke. Some of the tie in one shots were also pretty good, Damian Wayne and a team rescuing the JL Incarnate (among other things) was probably the most I've liked "solo/leader" Damian ever, even if the art was a bit off. We also got a good one shot of a bunch of heroes using Alan Scott's ring to solve some mysteries (its where they learn that Paraiah is behind everything, The great darkness didn't willingly give him power), which involves some intense scenes for Alan Scott, his kids, Raven, and Jon Kent.
The worst part of the Dark Crisis event was easily the "World without a Justice League" tie-ins. Pariah trapped the JL members (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, barry Alan, John stewart, Zatanna, Martian Manhunter, Hawkgirl, Black Canary and Green Arrow) in artifical worlds that are supposed to be what they always wanted. This is supposed to power his plans somehow. But, even though these fake worlds are supposed to be what the heroes want, they're mostly horrible, and several are post apocalyptic. Does Wonder Woman really want a world where the Amazons flee a devastated Earth but she stays behind? Does Superman really want a world where he never fights evil outside of Earth but can hear the whole universe needing help? Does Martian Manhunter want to be a murderous noir Cthulu guy? Does Batman really want to be split into two bodies, the dark and the light, and fight a literal useless fight against evil? At least Black Canary and Green Arrow forced Pariah to trap them together out of pure stubborness to be together, the only really in character thing. Luckily these are all skippable, the main event mini series explains all you need to know, its just a wasted opportunity and a weird execution of the premise in my opinion.
Overall I liked these events more then I though, especially Dark Crisis. It turns out that DC can turn out decent events when Tom King and Scott Snyder aren't involved. Of course Dark Crisis ends with a tease for Absolute Power, which is annoying (don't advetrise the next event at the end of the previous one so often, it makes the too frequent event schedule feel even worse) which I don't intend to ever read because I disagree with the entire premise and find a lot of things about it stupid.
I also read the Justice League Incarnate book that bridges infinite frontier and Dark crisis, and it was decent. The team composition was interesting, and it actually made me care about the Earth-23 Superman where before I kind of just thought of him as a gimmick character. The ending, with
Pariah taking control of a bunch of powerful villains, including Darkseid, was cool. I have gotten really tired of Darkseid in general, so it was awesaome to see Pariah just make him a mindless minion here instead of Darkseid being the big villain for the thousandth time
Then there was Dark Crisis, which I actually liked way more then I thought. Partially this is because, unlike the horrible Metal/Death metal Events, Dark Crisis has a story connected with COIE but it doesn't shit all over the original Crisis like Metal/DM does. Pariah, who caused the original Crisis, is trying to recreate the infinite Multiverse using the power of The Great Darkness. To this end he's "killed" the Justice League, and possessed a bunch of Earth villains (lead by a possessed Deathstroke) to basically defeat Earth-0's heroes while Pariah uses the captured Justice League as part of his plans.
The stuff with Pariah and the Earth's heroes vs villains was generally great. Nightwing in particular got some great moments, especially when confronting Deathstroke. Some of the tie in one shots were also pretty good, Damian Wayne and a team rescuing the JL Incarnate (among other things) was probably the most I've liked "solo/leader" Damian ever, even if the art was a bit off. We also got a good one shot of a bunch of heroes using Alan Scott's ring to solve some mysteries (its where they learn that Paraiah is behind everything, The great darkness didn't willingly give him power), which involves some intense scenes for Alan Scott, his kids, Raven, and Jon Kent.
The worst part of the Dark Crisis event was easily the "World without a Justice League" tie-ins. Pariah trapped the JL members (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, barry Alan, John stewart, Zatanna, Martian Manhunter, Hawkgirl, Black Canary and Green Arrow) in artifical worlds that are supposed to be what they always wanted. This is supposed to power his plans somehow. But, even though these fake worlds are supposed to be what the heroes want, they're mostly horrible, and several are post apocalyptic. Does Wonder Woman really want a world where the Amazons flee a devastated Earth but she stays behind? Does Superman really want a world where he never fights evil outside of Earth but can hear the whole universe needing help? Does Martian Manhunter want to be a murderous noir Cthulu guy? Does Batman really want to be split into two bodies, the dark and the light, and fight a literal useless fight against evil? At least Black Canary and Green Arrow forced Pariah to trap them together out of pure stubborness to be together, the only really in character thing. Luckily these are all skippable, the main event mini series explains all you need to know, its just a wasted opportunity and a weird execution of the premise in my opinion.
Overall I liked these events more then I though, especially Dark Crisis. It turns out that DC can turn out decent events when Tom King and Scott Snyder aren't involved. Of course Dark Crisis ends with a tease for Absolute Power, which is annoying (don't advetrise the next event at the end of the previous one so often, it makes the too frequent event schedule feel even worse) which I don't intend to ever read because I disagree with the entire premise and find a lot of things about it stupid.
Mike Grell has announced on his website that DC will collect his Warlord series in two omnibus hardcovers starting next year.
I'm looking forward to this. Have found and read the occasional issue at flea markets and conventions, I really liked those and wanted a proper collected edition for some time. I do wish they'd do them in their paperback Compendium format, because I'd buy them to read them, not to look good on a shelf, but that's not a deal-breaker, especially since it's only two installments.
I also hope they'll collect more fantasy books of the 70s and 80s, like Arak Son of Thunder (a character who's really been done dirty by the otherwise great Convergence crossover), Amethyst Princess of Gemworld, Arion Lord of Atlantis, or Claw the Unconquered.
I'm looking forward to this. Have found and read the occasional issue at flea markets and conventions, I really liked those and wanted a proper collected edition for some time. I do wish they'd do them in their paperback Compendium format, because I'd buy them to read them, not to look good on a shelf, but that's not a deal-breaker, especially since it's only two installments.
I also hope they'll collect more fantasy books of the 70s and 80s, like Arak Son of Thunder (a character who's really been done dirty by the otherwise great Convergence crossover), Amethyst Princess of Gemworld, Arion Lord of Atlantis, or Claw the Unconquered.
So, I'm looking through the recently released solicits for December, and with that and the solicits for November, I'm a bit stunned at just how many new titles DC is launching. As if "All-In" was also about quantity.
We've already talked about the new Justice League title by Waid & Mora, as well as the new JSA title. JSA isn't such a big deal, as it is basically replacing another title, and JL is kind of a given and that was one title that felt merely to be missing (though they did fill the time with some out-of-continuity titles, like the JL vs Godzilla vs Kong crossover).
But November also sees the launch of a new Black Lightning, a new Black Canary mini by Tom King, a new Question title, new Batgirl title, and then December sees the launch of a reboot/revamp/retelling/whatever of New Gods, a new Challengers of the Unknown title, new Two-Face title, and a new Metamorpho title.
So, that's eight new titles in the main DCU alone. There's of course also new titles outside the main continuity, like a new Green Lantern elseworld, a new Milestone miniseries, and a new Batman miniseries that sounds just like what I want in a Batman title (three-issue arcs, grounded detective stories).
We've already talked about the new Justice League title by Waid & Mora, as well as the new JSA title. JSA isn't such a big deal, as it is basically replacing another title, and JL is kind of a given and that was one title that felt merely to be missing (though they did fill the time with some out-of-continuity titles, like the JL vs Godzilla vs Kong crossover).
But November also sees the launch of a new Black Lightning, a new Black Canary mini by Tom King, a new Question title, new Batgirl title, and then December sees the launch of a reboot/revamp/retelling/whatever of New Gods, a new Challengers of the Unknown title, new Two-Face title, and a new Metamorpho title.
So, that's eight new titles in the main DCU alone. There's of course also new titles outside the main continuity, like a new Green Lantern elseworld, a new Milestone miniseries, and a new Batman miniseries that sounds just like what I want in a Batman title (three-issue arcs, grounded detective stories).
LOL--well it is DC All-In--I guess they mean that literally. Can't wait for The Atom, Firestorm, The Elongated Man, Zatanna, Jessica Cruz and the Huntress to get their own series.
Jessica cruz 100% deserves to have her own series again (and as a GREEN Lantern). I still hate that they fucked over the Green Lanterns book she shared with Simon because they wanted Grant Morrison's stupid Hal Jordan book to be the only GL book running at the time.
Also Zatanna technically has a Black Label mini series running right now, but its not canon and of course shows her as a weak, magically ignorant lady because Zatanna isn't allowed to be a master magician anymore (because John Constantine fan's dicks would fall off if a girl was objectively better at magic then that shit head, a trend that started with the New 52 because Constantine is every asshole comic writer's favorite DC magic character).
I'd also love to see The Atom, Firestorm and Elongated Man. They're all alive in the current continuity, it would be nice to get more books about characters like them rather then having 50 different Batman books (canon and elseworlds) every month.
Also Zatanna technically has a Black Label mini series running right now, but its not canon and of course shows her as a weak, magically ignorant lady because Zatanna isn't allowed to be a master magician anymore (because John Constantine fan's dicks would fall off if a girl was objectively better at magic then that shit head, a trend that started with the New 52 because Constantine is every asshole comic writer's favorite DC magic character).
I'd also love to see The Atom, Firestorm and Elongated Man. They're all alive in the current continuity, it would be nice to get more books about characters like them rather then having 50 different Batman books (canon and elseworlds) every month.
A relatively rare point of agreement. The Green Lanterns series she shared with Simon Baz was one of the few GL anythings that engaged me at all. (Though TBF, I haven't read extensively in the franchise because what I've seen doesn't much interest me. My DC sci-fi taste runs much more to the Legion of Super-Heroes.)
I lean more "don't want more Hal" and I'm at most indifferent to John and Guy.
I'd be up for more Kyle, Jess, Simon or two more of them in combination.
I agree with this 100%. I really enjoyed Morrison's run; however, there was no reason to cancel Jessica and Simon's book--or the other GLCorps book for that matter. Morrison's run had nothing to do with the continuity of the other series, and the Green Lanterns book was the best GL comic since Johns' run.
I agree with this too.
