I'm not Jim Swallow, but I'd wager that he means the Craig Kelly who is a British television actor.
Day of the Vipers (Please mark Spoilers!)
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Have you read Fearful Symmetry yet? Because if not then you haven't experienced anything yet, when it comes to Dukat.
Thanks for your comments on the book; as for Craig... I mis-spelled his surname, it's Kelly not Kelley. I should know better because I worked with the guy on the Blake's 7 audio drama series!
Anyhow, he's this guy, not the snowboarder with the same name.
Thanks for your comments on the book; as for Craig... I mis-spelled his surname, it's Kelly not Kelley. I should know better because I worked with the guy on the Blake's 7 audio drama series!
Anyhow, he's this guy, not the snowboarder with the same name.
No problem! The typo led me to some songs I actually ended up liking.
And you're very welcome! If I send an e-mail to the "Redwing Project" address on your homepage, will that get to you? I had something else to say, but I don't want to clutter the board with it.
JD--No, haven't read Fearful Symmetry...I kind of fell off of the "future" DS9 relaunch and most other Trek novels, partly for financial reasons. Terok Nor I made a special exception for. I may have to go to the library for FS. As for the particular atrocity Dukat committed in this novel--I am sure there are tons of other grotesque things one could make him do, but nothing could possibly hit me as hard as what he did to the Oralians.
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Once you read Fearful Symmetry, I expect you'll want to revise those remarks...
I would agree with that. What Dukat Dukat does in FS is... well, words are insufficient. Just read the book. 
It was a good book. My only compliant was about putting the Galors during that time period. It would be nice if another class was introduced or used the Akril Class.
I know, I know there is no "canon" date for the Galor Class, so KRADD and Christopher do not have go and post that.
I know, I know there is no "canon" date for the Galor Class, so KRADD and Christopher do not have go and post that.
I haven't read the whole thread, but I certainly agree with those who have remarked on how centered and unified this book is despite all the
characters, places, events, and time periods.
Most, if not all, Trek is a reflection of the time in which it was written.
I see this more in DV than in most. Agree or disagree?
characters, places, events, and time periods.
Most, if not all, Trek is a reflection of the time in which it was written.
I see this more in DV than in most. Agree or disagree?
One question about the age of the characters, in Day of the Vipers. How old was Dukat supposed to have been at the beginning of the Occupation?
One reason I was confused by this is because we know that Tekeny Ghemor, a Legate, was only nineteen when he participated in the storming of Kiessa Monastery. Even if this occurred at the VERY beginning of the Occupation, this would make it seem like Ghemor was younger than Dukat, not the other way around, considering Dukat was in a position of more responsibility than simple infantryman. Legate Ghemor seemed to be older than Dukat, the way he was portrayed--he physically appeared to show more age even in the years before he was diagnosed with Yarim Fel Syndrome, and certainly achieved the rank of Legate ahead of Dukat.
The same thing seems to be an issue with Kotan Pa'Dar--he seems to be the same age as Dukat, which seems older than Ghemor during Day of the Vipers, yet Ghemor seems to have passed him in age as well.
So I was wondering, how would Dukat, Pa'Dar, and Ghemor stack against each other, age-wise? How is this explained?
One reason I was confused by this is because we know that Tekeny Ghemor, a Legate, was only nineteen when he participated in the storming of Kiessa Monastery. Even if this occurred at the VERY beginning of the Occupation, this would make it seem like Ghemor was younger than Dukat, not the other way around, considering Dukat was in a position of more responsibility than simple infantryman. Legate Ghemor seemed to be older than Dukat, the way he was portrayed--he physically appeared to show more age even in the years before he was diagnosed with Yarim Fel Syndrome, and certainly achieved the rank of Legate ahead of Dukat.
The same thing seems to be an issue with Kotan Pa'Dar--he seems to be the same age as Dukat, which seems older than Ghemor during Day of the Vipers, yet Ghemor seems to have passed him in age as well.
So I was wondering, how would Dukat, Pa'Dar, and Ghemor stack against each other, age-wise? How is this explained?
It's not directly answering your question, but I addressed some comments about "the age thing" in this post.
Yep...I did see that. Tekeny Ghemor threw a bit of a wrench into the works, though, when I tried to sort it out knowing that we have that man's age mentioned in on-screen canon. ("Ties of Blood and Water")
Well, maybe Cardassian years are longer than Earth years and 19 of them translates to a greater age than we'd expect.
That is a possibility, though I had doubted it because the DS9 cast seemed to think Ghemor would've been only barely an adult at the time (i.e. "he was ONLY 19"). Unless Cardassians take longer to reach adulthood, as well?
I got this book a couple of weeks ago and to be honest, I'm finding it really hard to get past the first chapter. I just don't like the writing style. It's making it hard for me to get into the book properly. No offence to James Swallow here... it's good and all, just not working for me. I'm obviously in the minority anyway so no worries.
I'm gonna keep trying though!! Maybe it'll get better.
I'm gonna keep trying though!! Maybe it'll get better.
Tekeny Ghemor's apparent age isn't really an issue when you consider that people age in different ways, owing in part to their to individual circumstances. Consider Ghemor's: He was a member of a society that values family above everything, and he lost his wife and only child in the span of ten years; He labored secretly as one of the leaders of a dissident movement within a police state, while acting officially as part of that state's military leadership; And he was in the final stages of a degenerative and untreatable illness the second time we saw him.
Given all of that, it seems reasonable to think that Tekeny Ghemor may have aged faster than his contemporaries.
Certainly possible...the only question we'd be left with at that point would be this: Ghemor would be outranked by Dukat at that point (Dukat being a glinn, Ghemor probably being at the bottom of the food chain, as a 19-year-old infantryman), yet Ghemor somehow shot through the ranks a whole lot faster than Dukat. I guess it then becomes a question of what the regular progression is in the military, and how Ghemor's and Dukat's personalities and connections would've affected their standing. A case COULD be made for Ghemor having the charm to make a rapid rise where Dukat irritated people...
Certainly possible...the only question we'd be left with at that point would be this: Ghemor would be outranked by Dukat at that point (Dukat being a glinn, Ghemor probably being at the bottom of the food chain, as a 19-year-old infantryman), yet Ghemor somehow shot through the ranks a whole lot faster than Dukat. I guess it then becomes a question of what the regular progression is in the military, and how Ghemor's and Dukat's personalities and connections would've affected their standing. A case COULD be made for Ghemor having the charm to make a rapid rise where Dukat irritated people...
Well, we have a similar case in Starfleet: While Picard was a captain long before Janeway became one, she became an Admiral after her return from the Delta Quadrant, while Picard is still a Captain.
...the only question we'd be left with at that point would be this: Ghemor would be outranked by Dukat at that point (Dukat being a glinn, Ghemor probably being at the bottom of the food chain, as a 19-year-old infantryman), yet Ghemor somehow shot through the ranks a whole lot faster than Dukat. I guess it then becomes a question of what the regular progression is in the military, and how Ghemor's and Dukat's personalities and connections would've affected their standing. A case COULD be made for Ghemor having the charm to make a rapid rise where Dukat irritated people...
I'm not sure that's a question at all. There's ample precedent in Star Trek and in real life for people's careers to advance at different rates.
As for Dukat specifically, Terok Nor: Night of the Wolves touches on the fact that he spent many years rebuilding his career after the setback he suffered at the start of the occupation, and mentions the political maneuvering he undertook to become prefect of Bajor. Fearful Symmetry builds on that to an extent, and acknowledges the erratic trajectory of his career.
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The reason I actually decided to put a Welsh character in the book is because the Star Trek TV shows have shown characters from other parts of the UK (Montgomery Scott - Scottish; Miles O'Brien - Irish; Malcolm Reed - English) but not Wales. I felt they were a bit underepresented...
You know Ireland isn't a part of the UK?
Anyway, hugely enjoyed this book. I really enjoyed the "past" episodes on DS9 and have always found Bajor and her people to be a compelling place. To see it fleshed out so fully is fantastic.
Kudos all round.
The reason I actually decided to put a Welsh character in the book is because the Star Trek TV shows have shown characters from other parts of the UK (Montgomery Scott - Scottish; Miles O'Brien - Irish; Malcolm Reed - English) but not Wales. I felt they were a bit underepresented...
You know Ireland isn't a part of the UK?
D'oh, slip of the pen. Um, keyboard. Or something. Anyway, you get my point.
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