Davies vs. Moffat Eras

[Mr Light]

Russell T Davies ran the show for Season One to Four (Eccelston and Tennant)
Steven Moffat has run the show since Season Five (Smith and Capaldi)

Which era do you prefer?

I definitely miss the RTD era. I thought the writing on the whole was stronger. Stories had more logic and consistency and I enjoyed the season long big bad stories. I also thought the characterization was more touching and realistic.

It was also cool how the show became a franchise with Torchwood and Sarah Jane Adventures, even if I wasn't madly in love with either show.

The Moffat era, while still enjoyable, just gets too bizarre with the fantastical twists and time travel shenanigans. Important stories get madly rushed through while boring ones drag out forever. I do love Smith and Capaldi of course, but there have been prolonged stretches where I really started to worry about the show; S5, S6, S9...

 

[Beef Squatthrust]

I prefer the RTD era overall as well. I too love Smith and Capaldi and I really like a fair amount of Moffat's stories but he was better as a writer in the RTD era and not show runner.

 

[Venardhi]

I like the tone and production values of the Moffat era, and Smith is my favorite of the modern Doctors, but Moffat's overindulgence in "fairy tale" storytelling wore well through any welcome it had fairly early on and his tendency towards trying to constantly one-up himself and show off how clever he is holds no appeal. RTD in comparison was safer and often less interesting but the storytelling had a charm to it that Moffat hasn't captured more than a handful of times.

That said, I don't really have an overall preference. I have favorites from just about every season at this point.

 

[Squiggy]

Capaldi+Clara = Didn't mix.
Rockstar, guitar playing Doctor = Not a fan.
Sonic Sunglasses = Nope
Victorian Monster of the Week on a Space/Underground/Underwater Station = Tired of it.

I'd be ok with a monster of the week if there was some variation. They're always in a derelict station or some sort and this mindless monster (that evolved from eye boogers?) is out to monster them because monster. How I long for an episode where the Doctor travels back in time and just keeps some bad humans from doing something without being talked into it by his bubbly-sometimes-compainion-when-shes-not-busy.

"Sorry I was late. I had something better to do than travel through all of time and space."

NO YOU DIDN'T. NO ONE WILL EVER ACT THAT WAY. STOP IT CLARA.

 

[Sparkle Fabulosa]

If we're talking about series 5-7 then I prefer Steven Moffat. Though I might be biased (EARR.) But if we're talking series 8 and 9, then give me RTD any day!

 

[borgboy]

RTD is a better showrunner. I'd love for RTD to come back and Moffat write a couple of Who episodes a year and put more focus on Sherlock.
Heck, I'd still love a second season of Jekyll.
I will say that I think Moffat has gotten his second wind with the last half season, the quality has picked up. Until the last few episodes I'd felt the quality had been suffering ever since the Ponds left and Clara became the new companion. I'm not blaming Clara (although I was never a huge fan of her and it took a long long time to warm up to her at all) but that's just the era where I felt Moffat was showing fatigue in the quality control.

 

[Mr Light]

I thought Season 7 and the movie and most of 8 (with the glaring exception of anytime Danny Pink was onscreen) were generally great, it really redeemed that era for me because after 5 and 6 I was seriously losing interest in the show. It was no longer appointment television.

 

[The Wormhole]

RTD era hands down. The scripts were better, IMO in the entire run there were only two read duds with no redeeming value. Everything else done in those five years top notch, fresh and original. And while RTD did tend to do finales which were a bit too over the top and ended in a contrived deus ex machine, they were at least entertaining. In addition to that, RTD was able to deliver thirteen episodes plus Christmas special every year for four years straight and the one year he produced less, we got warning about it two years in advance. The longest gap between episodes was seven months. When RTD left the show it was on a high note leaving me wanting more.

Moffat era has too many scripts which are either sub par to plain bad. Maybe there aren't much more completely irredeemable, but there aren't very many which were completely awesome or great. We're getting far too many recycled plots both for episodes and season story arcs. Moffat finales or even just key episodes just consist of lengthy talky scenes in which character deliver monologues describing what's going to happen. Moffat only managed thirteen episodes and a Christmas special his first two years, and even then the second was a split season. And as the new year approaches, we still have no real idea what is going on with the show next year. Since taking over, Moffat has extended the gap between episodes twice, and may even do so a third time. And really, it's getting to the point where Moffat really should leave. I don't see what more he has to contribute to Doctor Who, and I get the impression even he feels he's done all he really wanted to.

 

[Captaindemotion]

There are things about both I like and things about both I dislike. I would say that Moffat is the stronger writer of individual stories but RTD the better show-runner.

I think that RTD was also aided by the novelty of the revived show and he got to take all the new toys and indeed the old ones out of the box. Weeping angels? Cool! Oh, the Daleks are back! The Cybermen are back! Davros! Etc. I think any showrunner following up the first 4 years plus specials would have a hard act coming up with new tricks to top all of that.

Moffat does tend to repeat himself, which in fairness most writers do to an extent. In his favour, he's written some great episodes and has cast the show brilliantly, IMHO, especially with the inspired choice of Matt Smith. I would not like to have been trying to find a replacement for David Tennant, given the near national outpouring of grief when he quit.

 

[Takeru]

I prefer the Davies era!

The companions were so much better written and felt like actual people and I liked that they had lifes back home and families and we got,to know them too. Rose wasn't just Rose for example, there were also Jacky, Mickey and Pete (with few but meaningful appearances).

When Moffat took over we got Amy and along with her came Rory, first as the fiance left home amd then as a full companion but that was it, they had no connection to earth. Amy's aunt and parents made minor appearances once and Rory's dad was only introduced in time for them to leave the show.
None of that would be a problem if they had simply travelled with the Doctor, leaving their old life behind but they didn't. In season 7 Rory said their friends start noticing that Amy and Rory seem to age faster then them ... what friends? We never saw them except for Melody, the bestest friend we never saw or heard of until she popped up in a corn field and regenerated into River ten minutes later.

Clara is exactly the same, friends and family exist but I couldn't tell you anything about them except that they're Clara's mom, dad and grandma and Clara lived on earth for all of season 8, there was time to get to know them which wouldmhave made a bigger impact during the finale. I was more worried for Jackie in the very first episode then I was about Clara's relatives during the tenth Cybermen invasion.

And I just realized something, Clara is dead and I didn't even think about how this will affect her family because who cares? They were walking cardboard cutouts.

 

[intrinsical]

Davis' era is a lot more emotional and thus more memorable. However, this doesn't necessarily mean the RTD era is better. I found Eccelston and Tennant's to be interchangable. I could easily imagine Tennant in Rose, or Eccelston in School Reunion. The Doctor was basically just a mystical, almost magical being and the entire show was quite clearly made primarily for children.

Moffat on the otherhand, is very good at writing stories that play to the actor's strengths. Matt Smith was wacky and his episodes were more wacky. Capaldi is a lot more serious and Moffat writes more serious stories for Capaldi. Finally, who can forget Day of The Doctor? The 50th anniversary show is a freaking masterpiece by itself and something I don't think RTD could have produced.

 

[Mr Light]

The movie was definitely awesome, with the glaring omission of undoing the ending of the Time War and the entire point of the revived series.

 

[Marsden]

I voted no preference. Both have had some really excellent shows and some really bad ones. It's strange that some of the best in RTD's time were written by Moffat, I say that as a compliment to both of them. Maybe Moffat does need a show runner other than himself to help him be his best.

 

[Starkers]

There are things about both I like and things about both I dislike. I would say that Moffat is the stronger writer of individual stories but RTD the better show-runner.

I think that RTD was also aided by the novelty of the revived show and he got to take all the new toys and indeed the old ones out of the box. Weeping angels? Cool! Oh, the Daleks are back! The Cybermen are back! Davros! Etc. I think any showrunner following up the first 4 years plus specials would have a hard act coming up with new tricks to top all of that.

Moffat does tend to repeat himself, which in fairness most writers do to an extent. In his favour, he's written some great episodes and has cast the show brilliantly, IMHO, especially with the inspired choice of Matt Smith. I would not like to have been trying to find a replacement for David Tennant, given the near national outpouring of grief when he quit.

I think that's a fair assessment and I do think the fact that Who under RTD was new and different (at least as far as a large portion of the audience were aware) is something people are far too keen to overlook. RTD produced a consistent product over 4 and a bit years whilst Moffat has been all over the place but I don't think that necessarily means RTD is superior, like you say it's probably that he's a better show runner but I think Moffat is more creative.

I was thinking about this when I first read the op and it strikes me that if RTD and Moffat were music groups RTD would be the slick easy listening group and Moffat the indie rock band. You'd always know when an RTD album was coming it and you'd always know what you were going to get, and you'd probably be able to hazard a guess as to how many of the tracks you'd actually like, and overall you'd enjoy each new album but...listen closely and it's clear that effectively each album is just a version of the ones that preceded it. People say Moffat is derivative of himself but no more so than RTD.

As for Moffat the band, well you'd expect an album to come out only it'd be late, or for some 'creative' reason the band would have decided to release it as two EPs. The band would constantly be trying to one up themselves and doing risky things, and as a result you wouldn't have a clue when you got that new album just how many tracks you'd like and you might find some of them were a bit much and some of them downright terrible and, yes, some of them would contain riffs you'd heard before, though used in different ways. But some of those tracks would be bloody brilliant.

For me I'd rather listen to an inconsistent Moffat album than a slick RTD album, and I don't get this "RTD's era was so much more emotional" No, it was just more obviously emotional. We knew when to be happy or sad because Murray Gold told us (VERY LOUDLY). People forget, or choose to ignore, some of the more beautiful moments of Moffat's era. Give me Eleven's quiet little goodbye to Amy, or his telling the story of his life to a sleeping Amelia, in The Big Bang over Billie Piper blubbing on a beach any day.

But that's just me

 

[Crazy Eddie]

RTD, but only -- repeat ONLY -- because of Martha Jones and Jack Harkness. Their absence in "A Good Man Goes to War" is just about unforgivable (should have offered Barrowman more money. ANY amount of money. It would have been worth it!)

The Doctor's inexplicable Victorian crew seems to be growing on me... Vastra, Jenny and Strax are a fun group, good lines, interesting chemistry. Only problem, I don't know where the hell these people came from, they just happened to show up one day, no explanation, and we assume they're friends of the Doctor but have no idea what their story is.

I mean, WHY is there a reptillian girl-hungry lizard woman solving crimes in 19th century England? I mean, yes, this is Doctor Who, I'm used to seeing some weird shit happen for no reason and just going with it because, well, that's just what you do when you travel with the Doctor.

But Lesbian crime-solving lizard woman with a ninja-maid girlfriend and a Sontarran butler... dammit, Stephen, you can't just pull that out of your ass and expect me to be cool with it! FUCKING EXPLAIN THIS!!!

 

[Relayer1]

RTD did a fantastic job bringing the show back and keeping it going. He introduced some fantastic characters and oversaw some great shows. What let it down was mainly his own writing, which was pretty dire. He's just not a sci-fi writer - he does characters very well, he's good at conventional drama, but his sci-fi stuff is less than stellar. It shows that the best episides of RTD's run were all written by Moffat, the worst ones mainly by RTD.

Moffat's period of showrunning my have been somewhat over complicated and with his other resposibilities, his own writing's not been as good as Empty Child and Girl in the Fireplace, but it's still been overall way better than RTDs. Way better.

I think it should be noted that the show's been back a long time, and most would have ended by now. Regardless of who is in charge, Who can't continue indefintely. It might be a good idea if it was rested for a while, or switched to 'specials'.

It can always be reinvented (again) in a few years time. Maybe with stories spread over four, six or eight half hour episodes...

 

[stardream]

The RTD era was like a comic book come to life. The production, the colors, the stories. I think RTD was better at conveying high emotional moments.

The Moffat era was more cinematic. When I watched the 11th hour the production alone made me think this was something that could have been shown in a theater. I will go on record as saying that Season 5 of Doctor Who still stands as one of my favorite seasons of any TV show...ever.

There is so much that I liked about both. I liked The Lonely God, the guilty survivor and then I liked the old man in a young man's body who had moved past the 'guilt'. I liked the fairy tale. I liked Captain Jack and River Song.

There's a lot I dislike about both. The time travel thing got out of hand and while I love Tennant after a while the angst was over the top...and sometimes Smith was just silly.

But I can't choose. I've tried and failed.

 

[EnderAKH]

For me, RTD all the way. RTD knew how to draw an emotional response out of me. The number of times that man made me cry.

Moffat, on the other hand, the only one I can recall is the end of Vincent and the Doctor. I didn't cry when Amy and Rory left, I didn't cry when River and 11 said goodbye, I didn't cry when Smith regenerated, and I didn't cry when Clara died. I just sat there with a feeling of "Eh, well that happened." RTD would have had me sobbing.

Also, a big piece for me is re-watchability. When I have a lazy Sunday when I am folding laundry and I want to watch Doctor Who, I would MUCH rather watch seasons 1-4 than anything after. There are some high notes (The 11th Hour is about the best post-regeneration episode I've seen) but on the whole, it just doesn't click with me.

Also... I just like how RTD followed the Doctor Who formula. The Doctor shows up somewhere unintentionally, strange things happen, the Doctor fixes it and rides off into the sunset in his TARDIS. Any ongoing story is WAY in the background. Usually only a mention of a word or something on a vid screen, it's not the entire point of the episode.

Another thing... I don't know who Moffat's DP is, but my God the last several seasons have been dark. He just desaturates them until they are almost monotone. I miss color and vibrancy.

Yeah RTD has some clunkers, but for me his seasons were more consistently entertaining than Moffat has been, and I am ready for a new showrunner.

 

[The Wormhole]

RTD, but only -- repeat ONLY -- because of Martha Jones and Jack Harkness. Their absence in "A Good Man Goes to War" is just about unforgivable (should have offered Barrowman more money. ANY amount of money. It would have been worth it!)

Money isn't what kept John Barrowman out of A Good Man Goes to War. It was the fact that when it was filmed he was need in the US for Miracle Day.

The Doctor's inexplicable Victorian crew seems to be growing on me... Vastra, Jenny and Strax are a fun group, good lines, interesting chemistry. Only problem, I don't know where the hell these people came from, they just happened to show up one day, no explanation, and we assume they're friends of the Doctor but have no idea what their story is.

I mean, WHY is there a reptillian girl-hungry lizard woman solving crimes in 19th century England? I mean, yes, this is Doctor Who, I'm used to seeing some weird shit happen for no reason and just going with it because, well, that's just what you do when you travel with the Doctor.

But Lesbian crime-solving lizard woman with a ninja-maid girlfriend and a Sontarran butler...

Their backstory is explained in Good Man. Construction of the London Underground accidentally killed several Silurians in hibernation and awoke Vastra. Vastra nearly killed the workers in vengeance until she was stopped by the Doctor who was able to make her see the truth of the matter. She then dedicated her life to fighting crime and solving mysteries. Admittedly, the show is light in details regarding Jenny. We know she is married to Vastra, though to most outsiders she is known only as Vastra's maid. She's been ostracized by her family presumably because of her sexuality.

Strax is a disgraced Sontaran officer who the Doctor saw some potential in and somehow convinced him to do work as a nurse, which we see him functioning in that role when we are first introduced to him in Good Man. He is then recruited by the Doctor for the Demons Run op during which he sacrifices his life. In the minisode available on the season 7 DVD set he is revived by Vastra and Jenny using alien technology who then invite him to live and work with them, which he grudgingly agrees to claiming to be really gathering intelligence for Sontaran High Command.

dammit, Stephen, you can't just pull that out of your ass and expect me to be cool with it! FUCKING EXPLAIN THIS!!!

It's Steven Moffat, not Stephen. Besides, RTD pulled things out of his ass and expected us to be cool with it, such as the sudden reveal of the helicarrier Valiant, which he even admits in The Writer's Tale completely comes out of nowhere and violates storytelling rules.

 

[Samurai8472]

They each have their pro's and cons

RTD wrote big finales and had a lot of grandeur to them.

Daleks and big CGI invasion forces around the world!

However RTD had a lot of corny moments like farting aliens and pandering to pop culture.

The tenth doctor was elevated to god level and no one could replace him.

No one could even brush their teeth without "The Doctaaa!!"

Earth relied heavily on him.



Moffat has some really great plot twisting episodes that make you think.

However he keeps doing "Alternate worlds that will be reset" finales.

He also mangled the shows schedule with River Song.