David Warner's GORKON

[RobertScorpio]

In the other thread we have been discussing Lloyd's Klingon-Kruge...what about David Warner's Gorkon?

I like David Warner, but I felt Gorkon came off too, well, human. I see Warner I don't see a Klingon. He is usually a great actor, but I just didn't buy him as a klingon, let alone, the ruler of all Klingons....Don't get me wrong, he does a good job, but I would not call his take on a klingon the greatest of all time...

What are some of your opinion's David Warner's Klingon Gorkon???

Rob
Scorprio

 

[trevanian]

I'd agree that he is a little too human, but then again, I'd have preferred to see a different movie once the E-a met up with the Klingon ship, one that had the two ships fighting together to make it back to earth to the peace conference. That kind of situation would have allowed Gorkon and the others more screen time and interaction with our guys, whereas what we get is Meyer's notion of Abraham Lincolon of Kling (looking a little like Ahab, so you aren't too sure of him at first.)

Then again, there's practically no science fiction content in the movie anyway, it is more like THE PACKAGE with spaceships, so delivering an alien-seeming alien might be out of place.

 

[Kryton]

There are FOUR LIGHTS!

Oh, my bad...wrong David Warner Trek appearance.

 

[Amaris]

In the other thread we have been discussing Lloyd's Klingon-Kruge...what about David Warner's Gorkon?

I like David Warner, but I felt Gorkon came off too, well, human. I see Warner I don't see a Klingon. He is usually a great actor, but I just didn't buy him as a klingon, let alone, the ruler of all Klingons....Don't get me wrong, he does a good job, but I would not call his take on a klingon the greatest of all time...

What are some of your opinion's David Warner's Klingon Gorkon???

Rob
Scorprio

I loved Warner's take on Gorkon. I loved the drama, the political motivation, his own personal opinions kept closely guarded. How do we know this is what Gorkon wanted, rather than what Gorkon felt the Klingon Empire needed? Star Trek VI is definitely one of my personal favorites, and it, in my opinion, is carried heavily by David Warner's (IMO) excellent performance as the Klingon High Chancellor.

J.

 

[RobertScorpio]

There are FOUR LIGHTS!

Oh, my bad...wrong David Warner Trek appearance.

Kyrton will be performing weeknights at your local casino..and he writes his own material..WINK WINK Kryton..I thought it was funny!

Rob
Scorpio

 

[Rex Racer]

Kruge at least still comes off as Klingon. Gorkon really doesn't, but then again, that's sort of the point of his character. He's all about change.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Kruge at least still comes off as Klingon. Gorkon really doesn't, but then again, that's sort of the point of his character. He's all about change.

Well, I just don't buy, especially if they had changed. Cause I don't see Gowron, Kimpec or Durass getting much out of an english-Klingon...And Gorkon just isn't a Klingon, he is Klingon NUMBER ONE...the cream of the crop..and yet he comes off as a peaceful, big teddy bear...I just don't get it. It would have been far more believable to have had a rough Klingon representing the Klingons as their 'leader'. Not some paper Tiger...

Rob
Scorpio

 

[Peach Wookiee]

I don't know...I like the Klingon who could pull off diplomat and warrior quite well.

 

[RobertScorpio]

I don't know...I like the Klingon who could pull off diplomat and warrior quite well.

Thats my point...To me, he pulled off dimplomat well..but I could never see Gorkon as a warrior. I think he was to soft spoken to have really been a Klingon warrior. And considering those who followed him in that capacity, I just dont think he fit in..

Rob
Scorpio

 

[FalTorPan]

Gorkon wasn't a TNG-like, stereotypical Klingon, but the movie-era Klingons were open to interpretation to some extent, so I don't have a problem with the way that Gorkon was portrayed.

 

[RobertScorpio]

Gorkon wasn't a TNG-like, stereotypical Klingon, but the movie-era Klingons were open to interpretation to some extent, so I don't have a problem with the way that Gorkon was portrayed.

Oh, I totally agree. And there is no reason to believe they were 'all' the same in the way they act as Klingons. I guess, for me, Warner didn't dissappear enough behind the character..I just saw David Warner, I didn't see a klingon Character...maybe that is a good thing? I don't know. But for me it was, and still is, a distraction when watching TUC....and I love David Warner, always have...here I just thought he was really out of his element..

As the Cardassian who tortured Picard? Yes, I bought him in that role...as the Federation Ambassador in STAR TREK V? yes...but as a Klingon warrior/diplomat? No

Rob
Scorpio

 

[Red Ranger]

David Warner is one of my all-time favorite actors, so I did like his interpretation of Gorkon as a kind of Mikhail Gorbachev type. He struck me as a Klingon pragmatist who was buying time for the Empire. Also, just because he spoke softly doesn't mean he didn't carry a big bat'leth! -- RR

 

[RobertScorpio]

David Warner is one of my all-time favorite actors, so I did like his interpretation of Gorkon as a kind of Mikhail Gorbachev type. He struck me as a Klingon pragmatist who was buying time for the Empire. Also, just because he spoke softly doesn't mean he didn't carry a big bat'leth! -- RR

David Warner is one of the best character actors of his time. Time after Time, I think that's the title, where he and HG Wells (Tolian Soran) have a show down in modern Frisco (with the Doc's main squeeze from Back to the Future) is one of my favorite WARNER movies..

However, I just am not hip on his turn as a klingon. Its almost as if they found the most 'human' acting Klingon and made him the Chancellor of the High Command? Until something comes out, like a book, that adds teeth to his Klingon background, i just don't buy him as coming up through the ranks, killing opponents, and using a Batleth and all that...

Rob
Scorpio

 

[rocketscientist]

David Warner is one of my all-time favorite actors, so I did like his interpretation of Gorkon as a kind of Mikhail Gorbachev type. He struck me as a Klingon pragmatist who was buying time for the Empire. Also, just because he spoke softly doesn't mean he didn't carry a big bat'leth! -- RR

I agree. I think the whole point of Gorkon was that he be a somewhat atypical Klingon. He's have to be, seeing as he was willing to go against the cultural grain of his people for their own best interest.

Also, it should be noted just because we didn't see him fighting doesn't mean he wasn't a warrior. He was really a very enigmatic character, a Klingon who wanted peace.

IIRC Warner wasn't the first choice to play Gorkon. I want to say they were trying to get Sean Connery, but then I do know they wanted him to be Sybok in TFF (hence the name of the planet Sha-Ka-Ree). I know they wanted someone else to be Gorkon, a bigger name. Does anyone remember who it was?

Anyway, I liked Warner's Gorkon. Again, like the other Klingons in TUC they seemed to be more like real individuals than the Berman era Klingons, which I thought got a bit stereotypical as time went on.

 

[Red Ranger]

David Warner is one of my all-time favorite actors, so I did like his interpretation of Gorkon as a kind of Mikhail Gorbachev type. He struck me as a Klingon pragmatist who was buying time for the Empire. Also, just because he spoke softly doesn't mean he didn't carry a big bat'leth! -- RR

I agree. I think the whole point of Gorkon was that he be a somewhat atypical Klingon. He's have to be, seeing as he was willing to go against the cultural grain of his people for their own best interest.

Also, it should be noted just because we didn't see him fighting doesn't mean he wasn't a warrior. He was really a very enigmatic character, a Klingon who wanted peace.

IIRC Warner wasn't the first choice to play Gorkon. I want to say they were trying to get Sean Connery, but then I do know they wanted him to be Sybok in TFF (hence the name of the planet Sha-Ka-Ree). I know they wanted someone else to be Gorkon, a bigger name. Does anyone remember who it was?

Anyway, I liked Warner's Gorkon. Again, like the other Klingons in TUC they seemed to be more like real individuals than the Berman era Klingons, which I thought got a bit stereotypical as time went on.

Exactly! I think Gorkon was supposed to be atypical and I also think it just takes a little imagination to think that because he has a quiet demeanor many of his opponents underestimated him, until it was too late. Perhaps he epitomized the old Klingon saying, "A running man can slit a thousand throats in one night," or something to that effect. -- RR

 

[trevanian]

IIRC Warner wasn't the first choice to play Gorkon. .

Jack Palance was Meyer' choice, but he cost too much money.

The notion some put forth in this thread about Gorkon being atypical for a klingon leader makes me think, do we have a Klingon equivalent of I CLAUDIUS here? Sounds like that might be almost as good a klingon story as the only great klingon story ... the late John Ford's THE FINAL REFLECTION.

 

[Red Ranger]

IIRC Warner wasn't the first choice to play Gorkon. .

Jack Palance was Meyer' choice, but he cost too much money.

The notion some put forth in this thread about Gorkon being atypical for a klingon leader makes me think, do we have a Klingon equivalent of I CLAUDIUS here? Sounds like that might be almost as good a klingon story as the only great klingon story ... the late John Ford's THE FINAL REFLECTION.

Wow, Jack Palance as Gorkon. How cool would that have been? I would have also liked to see Charlton Heston in a ST movie, bless his departed self. -- RR

 

[RobertScorpio]

IIRC Warner wasn't the first choice to play Gorkon. .

Jack Palance was Meyer' choice, but he cost too much money.

The notion some put forth in this thread about Gorkon being atypical for a klingon leader makes me think, do we have a Klingon equivalent of I CLAUDIUS here? Sounds like that might be almost as good a klingon story as the only great klingon story ... the late John Ford's THE FINAL REFLECTION.

Wow, Jack Palance as Gorkon. How cool would that have been? I would have also liked to see Charlton Heston in a ST movie, bless his departed self. -- RR

Palance as a Klingon I could buy...

Rob
Scorpio

 

[cardinal biggles]

Wow, Jack Palance as Gorkon. How cool would that have been? I would have also liked to see Charlton Heston in a ST movie, bless his departed self. -- RR

Heston would have been a good candidate for Gorkon as well.

I just rewatched Tim Burton's Batman for the first time in about five years over the weekend, so now I've got this hilarious mental image of Gorkon grabbing General Chang by the shoulders and saying "You... are my number one guy!"

 

[rocketscientist]

IIRC Warner wasn't the first choice to play Gorkon. .

Jack Palance was Meyer' choice, but he cost too much money.

The notion some put forth in this thread about Gorkon being atypical for a klingon leader makes me think, do we have a Klingon equivalent of I CLAUDIUS here? Sounds like that might be almost as good a klingon story as the only great klingon story ... the late John Ford's THE FINAL REFLECTION.

That's it! Jack Palance! Thanks for that!

What would he have been like?!?!?

I hate to say it, but I think Palance would've been a lot better. Not that I ldisliked Warner, he's a great actor and did a good job with the character, but I think Palance would've been better suited to the role.

Once again, the limited budgets of the ST movie hurts the film. That happened all the time, just read Ron Moore's latest interview on trekmovie.com. ST XI is really the first time that a ST movie is actually getting a real block-buster budget, I guess because they're making a concerted effort to get the mainstream audience, whereas the other films were largely directed at the existing fanbase. They knew they could get about 75-80 million (American) gross for each film, so that always limited how much they'd put into each film's budget. The only ones that broke through were TMP, TVH, and FC.