David Marcus - What did Kirk know and when did he know it?

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

"Synthesizer" with "food" implies making food out of non-food components. It could be some kind of chemistry lab that's a part of the waste recycling system and that additionally might be somewhat analogous to a super-duper 3D printer that maybe uses nanotechnology but doesn't utilize anything like transporter tech as a principle component.

In that case, something like chicken soup would be easy to make and have look similar to what it usually is- either out of powdered mix with water automatically added and heated (no pouring or stirring), or cooked up out of its chemical formula from scratch. This would explain why the food cubes - that's default food, when the person eating doesn't particularly care what the food is, just wanting to fill their empty stomach and get back to work - Trek's answer to having a protein bar in your back pocket. When they care more, they might ask for a sandwich instead.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

In that case, something like chicken soup would be easy to make and have look similar to what it usually is- either out of powdered mix with water automatically added and heated (no pouring or stirring), or cooked up out of its chemical formula from scratch. This would explain why the food cubes - that's default food, when the person eating doesn't particularly care what the food is, just wanting to fill their empty stomach and get back to work - Trek's answer to having a protein bar in your back pocket. When they care more, they might ask for a sandwich instead.

Yeah.

The colored cubes always looked to me like they had come out of a machine. I believe that was the obvious intent. Trek's answer to the protein bar, indeed. Probably pure nutrition; aka the astronaut food of the 23rd century.

What does the color signify? Flavor only? If it's as you suggest, if it's just generic food, to be consumed possibly during an emergency, it really shouldn't matter from a nutritional standpoint what color you grab.

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

What does the color signify? Flavor only? If it's as you suggest, if it's just generic food, to be consumed possibly during an emergency, it really shouldn't matter from a nutritional standpoint what color you grab.

Flavor in the way that someone chooses a lollipop or gummie vitamins- a taste in your mouth but not the primary objective.

 

[Nyotarules]

The well-being of the child would simply never be in question. So if Carol wanted to raise David on her own, there would be no reason for Kirk to feel guilty about cooperating with that. (Although, of course, he might have wished she had preferred otherwise.)

So enlightened humans become deadbeat parents, who can walk away from the responsibility of parenting since money is not (or might not be involved).

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Kirk didn't walk away. Carol told him to stay away. There's a difference.

 

[Nyotarules]

Kirk didn't walk away. Carol told him to stay away. There's a difference.

And he put up a real fight in court for joint custody. She gave him the easy option and he took it.

 

[UssGlenn]

And he put up a real fight in court for joint custody. She gave him the easy option and he took it.

There were no children on Starships yet. Joint custody was never an option. At best Kirk visits when he's on leave. Carol obviously thought that would be worse for David to be missing his dad all the time. Besides Carol was probably thinking she would meet someone else that would become David's step-father (it would be easier if the new guy didn't have to compete with Kirk for David's affection). The fact that she didn't meet someone else is just bad luck.

 

[Nyotarules]

There were no children on Starships yet. Joint custody was never an option. At best Kirk visits when he's on leave. Carol obviously thought that would be worse for David to be missing his dad all the time. Besides Carol was probably thinking she would meet someone else that would become David's step-father (it would be easier if the new guy didn't have to compete with Kirk for David's affection). The fact that she didn't meet someone else is just bad luck.

Which I guess is what happens in the RW to the children of divorced or separated parents, where one is in the armed forces, works for NASA or some other business where they are away a lot. Carol made a selfish decision, perhaps Admiral Marcus played the role of father to David. If Kirk's parents were alive at the time they must have been devastated to be denied seeing their own grandson. The RL implications of such decisions are tragic.

 

[Timewalker]

So enlightened humans become deadbeat parents, who can walk away from the responsibility of parenting since money is not (or might not be involved).

Kirk never claimed to be enlightened. That's Picard's and Riker's schtick, and a 75-year gap between them.

And he put up a real fight in court for joint custody. She gave him the easy option and he took it.

There is no on-screen evidence of Kirk not wanting to be a parent. In fact, I got the distinct impression that he would have willingly taken on the challenge if Carol had allowed it.

 

[Nyotarules]

Kirk never claimed to be enlightened. That's Picard's and Riker's schtick, and a 75-year gap between them.


There is no on-screen evidence of Kirk not wanting to be a parent. In fact, I got the distinct impression that he would have willingly taken on the challenge if Carol had allowed it.

One does not need the permission of the other parent to see a child, just a good lawyer. I would expect the Terran family court system of the 23rd century to have a better view of the role of fatherhood than an old 20th century one.

 

[Timewalker]

Which I guess is what happens in the RW to the children of divorced or separated parents, where one is in the armed forces, works for NASA or some other business where they are away a lot. Carol made a selfish decision, perhaps Admiral Marcus played the role of father to David. If Kirk's parents were alive at the time they must have been devastated to be denied seeing their own grandson. The RL implications of such decisions are tragic.

WTF does Admiral Marcus have to do with this? We're talking about the TOS movies, not nuTrek.

One does not need the permission of the other parent to see a child, just a good lawyer. I would expect the Terran family court system of the 23rd century to have a better view of the role of fatherhood than an old 20th century one.

Yes, he could have forced his way into their situation, but it would likely have done more harm than good. I know from RL experience what it does to kids when they know there is hostility going on between their parents, when one parent is away for long periods of time, and when both factors are in play simultaneously.

Carol made her pitch for what she considered would be best for her child, and Kirk accepted it. It doesn't mean he liked it, or that he never thought of what could have been.

The fact is that 23rd-century Starfleet was kid-unfriendly - no kids on starships, and the Starfleet parent would be gone for long periods of time. That continued into the 24th century, with both Janeway and Tom Paris being "Starfleet brats" whose fathers were gone for long periods of time and missed some significant events in their kids' lives.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

WTF does Admiral Marcus have to do with this? We're talking about the TOS movies, not nuTrek.

He is still Carol's father. He was already an adult when the divergence took place, so he must have existed in the prime timeline as well.

Although Marcus-Prime may not have been the warmongering asshole that his Kelvin counterpart was. (We can only hope!)

 

[Timewalker]

He is still Carol's father. He was already an adult when the divergence took place, so he existed in the prime timeline as well.

Although Marcus-Prime may not have been the warmongering asshole that his Kelvin counterpart was. (We can only hope!)

Or he could have died when Carol was a child. He's irrelevant to this, as far as I'm concerned, because he is not a TOS character.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

He's irrelevant to this, as far as I'm concerned, because he is not a TOS character.

Technically, neither was Carol - she was introduced in a movie, just like her father was.

Although I doubt that Marcus-Prime took much of a role in the raising of David. He was in Starfleet (at least I assume he was, since he was already grown up when the timelines diverged), same as Kirk. And of course Carol would be entirely capable of raising David on her own.

Alex might have been the doting grandpa, though.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

For all we know, in the Prime timeline, Admiral Marcus died in a tragic blimp accident.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ Goodyear?

 

[Nyotarules]

[

The fact is that 23rd-century Starfleet was kid-unfriendly - no kids on starships, and the Starfleet parent would be gone for long periods of time.

No kids are allowed on naval ships in RL or expected to follow their parents on active duty zones, however this does not stop the personnel involved from having families and children that they actually have a relationship.
If a RL Dr. Marcus and Captain Kirk (in the RL army, navy or airforce) in 2018 made those same choices for their child today, they would not be considered, parent of the year or even the decade.

 

[Nyotarules]

Technically, neither was Carol - she was introduced in a movie, just like her father was.

Although I doubt that Marcus-Prime took much of a role in the raising of David. He was in Starfleet (at least I assume he was, since he was already grown up when the timelines diverged), same as Kirk. And of course Carol would be entirely capable of raising David on her own.

Alex might have been the doting grandpa, though.

According to Spock in ST09 Kirk's father lived long enough to see him Captain the Enterprise, and lets assume that Peter Kirk was raised by his grandparents after the incident at Deneva. Imagine the senior Kirks' distress when their son tells him he is walking away from fatherhood to David. That is if Kirk even told them about their grandchild.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

^ Goodyear?

No, the worst.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Imagine the senior Kirks' distress when their son tells him he is walking away from fatherhood to David.

But that's the thing. Kirk didn't walk away. Carol told him to STAY away. Those are not the same thing!