David Blue Talks About SGU

[Kaijima]

The things I like about SGU are decidedly features that distinguish it from SG-1: no ability to go to Earth to get reinforcements/weapons (stones don't count since the number of bodies is still limited); mixed civilian/military crew; no aliens-of-the-week. My primary gripes have been about the pacing and characterization. Chloe was pretty much a non-entity until the blue alien thing happened. Rush has doubletalked and schemed and lied and kept secrets since day one and there was rarely a good reason for it. The civilians trying to take over the ship lacked a believable motivation since it was never discussed exactly how the civilians would run things differently--so it just looked like a petty power struggle over nothing. The use of the stones was downright laughable sometimes, like the nonsense with Young's wife.

The biggest objective fault in the show from the beginning was Chloe.

The rest? I honestly think it strengthened the characters and the storyline. None of it was arbitrary. You like the show structurally, but the biggest problems I've seen fans have in most cases (not all) isn't the structure of the show, but that they're unwilling to go with the characterization and the character development. SGU seems conceived as a slow burner that leads to explosions, and IMHO, has done more right than wrong.

Rush's constant deception? It was made pretty clear he's got massive issues. People who are paranoid don't need /legitimate reasons to hide things. That's what makes them dysfunctional. We got regular, measured insight into why Rush is screwed up as the seasons proceeded. The degree to which he is broken has set up Rush's overcoming his problems as a major struggle. It means something.

The civilian mutiny? Powered in part by a complete paranoiac (Rush) who was intelligent enough to instill his paranoia in others? The reason why the civilians wanted to take over wasn't because they had a totally different plan from Young; it was because Rush and Wray distrusted Young to make critical judgement calls in unknown situations. And why did they think that? Well...

... because Young has problems, yes. The stuff with his wife had a few moments of unnecessary complication (Telford's mini accidental affair), but it was a valid part of his development that helped create real, solid reasons for Young to fall apart under the stress of Destiny's situation. Despite the fan hate for the stones, their use for the most part paid off with character development down the road - especially in Eli's case, as the business with his mother really went somewhere and contributed to his maturing by a leap. (And from all appearances, seeding Eli becoming one of the most capable people for dealing with running Destiny on its mission; not just a survivor along for the ride doing the occasional helpful trick.)

The biggest departure SGU makes from Stargate isn't even really dispensing with four people shooting up a park outside Vancouver. Stargate never, generally, went in for this kind of long form, complex, and interconnected character development centric format. The SGU team hasn't executed it as well as it could be ideally, but what they've managed to do is still fresh and exciting. Made more so for the fact that unlike say, Moore's NuBSG, SGU apparently isn't trading the sci-fi and the mythology for the character drama. It's balancing the two, and even fusing the character development to the growing mythology.

Some of the fan rejection amidst all this has been outright head-scratching. Take the common sentiment that the first few episodes of SGU were "so terrible" because "nothing happened". Eh? Nothing happened except an actual science fiction scenario of survival in space playing out, where things such as renewable supplies, air, and even just plain water are not taken for granted? Concerns of over chemistry being major plot points? People on SG teams doing actual basic science on alien worlds, without technobabble?

Is it really so hard to see why some people have come away from the fan bickering with the impression that what a lot of Stargate fans want is limited to something pretty cartoonish?

 

[Robert Maxwell]

The things I like about SGU are decidedly features that distinguish it from SG-1: no ability to go to Earth to get reinforcements/weapons (stones don't count since the number of bodies is still limited); mixed civilian/military crew; no aliens-of-the-week. My primary gripes have been about the pacing and characterization. Chloe was pretty much a non-entity until the blue alien thing happened. Rush has doubletalked and schemed and lied and kept secrets since day one and there was rarely a good reason for it. The civilians trying to take over the ship lacked a believable motivation since it was never discussed exactly how the civilians would run things differently--so it just looked like a petty power struggle over nothing. The use of the stones was downright laughable sometimes, like the nonsense with Young's wife.

The biggest objective fault in the show from the beginning was Chloe.

The rest? I honestly think it strengthened the characters and the storyline. None of it was arbitrary. You like the show structurally, but the biggest problems I've seen fans have in most cases (not all) isn't the structure of the show, but that they're unwilling to go with the characterization and the character development. SGU seems conceived as a slow burner that leads to explosions, and IMHO, has done more right than wrong.

Don't speak for me--I actually like Rush, Eli, Volker, Brody, Greer, Young, and even Scott (sometimes.) Their development has just seemed very haphazard at times.

Rush's constant deception? It was made pretty clear he's got massive issues. People who are paranoid don't need /legitimate reasons to hide things. That's what makes them dysfunctional. We got regular, measured insight into why Rush is screwed up as the seasons proceeded. The degree to which he is broken has set up Rush's overcoming his problems as a major struggle. It means something.

I question why all of these people are dumb enough not to realize what a nut Rush is, then. He may be brilliant but he's also very disturbed. He framed a man for murder, for fuck's sake. While they can't summarily execute him he should be kept on a tight leash for the safety of the crew.

It's things like that which rub me the wrong way. Rush gets away with his shit constantly and when Young calls him on it, Young is the bad guy. They've all made really bad decisions--including Young leaving Rush behind--but it really says something about Rush when you're actually surprised that he did something to help someone else.

The civilian mutiny? Powered in part by a complete paranoiac (Rush) who was intelligent enough to instill his paranoia in others? The reason why the civilians wanted to take over wasn't because they had a totally different plan from Young; it was because Rush and Wray distrusted Young to make critical judgement calls in unknown situations. And why did they think that? Well...

This kind of goes along with Wray not being too bright. Isn't she supposed to be skilled in psychology and HR and so forth? Could she really not tell Rush is a dangerous loose cannon and probably not the best person to get into bed with in terms of a mutiny?

They try to have these characters evolve and react to each other but the reactions often make no sense. People overlook enormous faults that are obvious to the audience but apparently invisible to the other characters. They all have to live together and try to get along but no one has bothered to rein Rush in despite his numerous duplicitous actions.

... because Young has problems, yes. The stuff with his wife had a few moments of unnecessary complication (Telford's mini accidental affair), but it was a valid part of his development that helped create real, solid reasons for Young to fall apart under the stress of Destiny's situation. Despite the fan hate for the stones, their use for the most part paid off with character development down the road - especially in Eli's case, as the business with his mother really went somewhere and contributed to his maturing by a leap. (And from all appearances, seeding Eli becoming one of the most capable people for dealing with running Destiny on its mission; not just a survivor along for the ride doing the occasional helpful trick.)

Young being a fuckup is one of the things I like about the show. It was established from day one that he wanted to retire, he didn't want this mission, and now he's stuck on the other side of the universe trying to keep his people in line while not getting the civilians killed. Where I got annoyed with Young's storyline was just how trivial the stuff with Telford was by comparison. Young was acting like a jealous asshole and Telford was being a dick to him, too. Having not seen any of the background as to why they don't like each other, it just came off as really childish.

The biggest departure SGU makes from Stargate isn't even really dispensing with four people shooting up a park outside Vancouver. Stargate never, generally, went in for this kind of long form, complex, and interconnected character development centric format. The SGU team hasn't executed it as well as it could be ideally, but what they've managed to do is still fresh and exciting. Made more so for the fact that unlike say, Moore's NuBSG, SGU apparently isn't trading the sci-fi and the mythology for the character drama. It's balancing the two, and even fusing the character development to the growing mythology.

I like character drama. I am a big nuBSG fan, after all. That show very frequently ditched its sci-fi credentials in favor of drama. I don't have a problem with that as long as the drama is compelling and I can understand why these characters are acting the way they are. What I don't like is having to conclude that these people are idiots and should never have credibly gotten to where they are now.

Some of the fan rejection amidst all this has been outright head-scratching. Take the common sentiment that the first few episodes of SGU were "so terrible" because "nothing happened". Eh? Nothing happened except an actual science fiction scenario of survival in space playing out, where things such as renewable supplies, air, and even just plain water are not taken for granted? Concerns of over chemistry being major plot points? People on SG teams doing actual basic science on alien worlds, without technobabble?

Who said the first few episodes were bad? I didn't. My only gripe was that part 3 of "Air" dragged in places. I very much appreciated the real science in it, though. That's unusual for televised sci-fi in general, much less the Stargate franchise. I'm glad they made the effort.

Is it really so hard to see why some people have come away from the fan bickering with the impression that what a lot of Stargate fans want is limited to something pretty cartoonish?

I don't want "classic" Stargate, personally. I don't think the premise of this show is fundamentally flawed or that the characters are a wreck and should be tossed. I don't hate the show, either, and I will admit is getting better. It's finding its footing and finding roles for these characters. It's just a bit ridiculous that it took almost a season and a half to get to this point. The creators of this show are lucky they're on SyFy or they'd have been canceled by the first midseason hiatus.

TV is not what it was 20 or even 10 years ago. You are not given time to "find your niche" or to figure out what you're doing. Your show is either good from day one--and appeals to a broad audience--or you're dead in the water. Lost proved you can have a complex sci-fi drama and still be a ratings hit, but it has to be very well-done and you can't just expect your audience to go along if the show is crap.

I don't want SGU to get canceled and I'm very glad it is improving but I fear it has lost enough of the audience that if it gets a third season it will be either be cut short or be the last season, period. And this would be because the show didn't fire on all cylinders from day one, hook its audience, and keep them hooked.

 

[bullethead]

Rush's constant deception? It was made pretty clear he's got massive issues. People who are paranoid don't need /legitimate reasons to hide things. That's what makes them dysfunctional. We got regular, measured insight into why Rush is screwed up as the seasons proceeded. The degree to which he is broken has set up Rush's overcoming his problems as a major struggle. It means something.

It would mean something if the writers focused on the human tragedy that is Rush instead of the secret agenda bullshit we've got for a season and a half. Hell, aside from a brief rant in Air Part 3, we never learn much of Rush's background until Human, and even that isn't enough to overcome the overt vilification of Rush. Hell, the only reason I root for him is because everyone else appears to be incompetent and/or lazy.

The civilian mutiny? Powered in part by a complete paranoiac (Rush) who was intelligent enough to instill his paranoia in others? The reason why the civilians wanted to take over wasn't because they had a totally different plan from Young; it was because Rush and Wray distrusted Young to make critical judgement calls in unknown situations. And why did they think that? Well...

... because Young has problems, yes. The stuff with his wife had a few moments of unnecessary complication (Telford's mini accidental affair), but it was a valid part of his development that helped create real, solid reasons for Young to fall apart under the stress of Destiny's situation. Despite the fan hate for the stones, their use for the most part paid off with character development down the road - especially in Eli's case, as the business with his mother really went somewhere and contributed to his maturing by a leap. (And from all appearances, seeding Eli becoming one of the most capable people for dealing with running Destiny on its mission; not just a survivor along for the ride doing the occasional helpful trick.)

Rush didn't have to instill paranoia in anyone. Young made a ton of bad calls, like allowing Spencer to roam around even though he was an obvious trouble maker, generally ignoring Wray and her input, have his little clique do everything related to the civilians, giving Rush a stupid ultimatum that resulted in Rush framing him for murder just so he could get more people to work on the chair, and not actually being a leader. He just tells people what to do and gets pissed whenever they don't do exactly what he wants or they can't do anything.

The whole wife thing was never really good enough as a reason for him to fall apart. The incident Young and Telford talk about, the Lucian Alliance attack on some base Young was at, would've been a better reason and they really should've established that early on. But since they didn't, Young comes off as an incompetent who can't see reason and isn't capable of overcoming his flaws.

And as for Young seeing Eli as an asset, don't forget that he and Rush hang out a lot in the pilot and that stops somewhere around Water because 1) Eli doesn't actually do much and 2) he apparently is incapable of summoning the motivation to do anything besides his documentary shit, following Chloe around, and whatever Young tells him to. He's pretty much as important as Brody and Volker to most story resolutions, which is to say not very.

Some of the fan rejection amidst all this has been outright head-scratching. Take the common sentiment that the first few episodes of SGU were "so terrible" because "nothing happened". Eh? Nothing happened except an actual science fiction scenario of survival in space playing out, where things such as renewable supplies, air, and even just plain water are not taken for granted? Concerns of over chemistry being major plot points? People on SG teams doing actual basic science on alien worlds, without technobabble?

Well, to be honest, those stories sucked because 1) we knew they were going to get the stuff, 2) they were race against the clock stories that we knew would be solved by the last five minutes, and 3) there wasn't anything to add suspense. For example, BSG's Water is superior to SGU's Water because the search for water is directly affected by Boomer's sub-plot of her discovering she's a Cylon sleeper agent and getting Tyrol's help. In SGU's water, the dust alien problem causes the search for water, but doesn't really affect the water collection plot in any way. I mean it gives TJ some character development, but it has no influence on the boring "Scott is trapped in a ravine" plot on the ice planet.

Don't speak for me--I actually like Rush, Eli, Volker, Brody, Greer, Young, and even Scott (sometimes.) Their development has just seemed very haphazard at times.

Here's the problem with the main characters: most of their development consists of negative stuff, then a bit of positive stuff here and there, and more negative stuff. That's why it's hard to really like Greer, because they'll make him be funny or something, then in the same episode have him act angry and/or crazy.

The secondary characters have pretty much no development, honestly. They're just there to make wry comments and ineffectually push buttons until Rush or Destiny solves the problem. Oh, and who else thought Rush and Brody might team up after coming up with their chain mod in Human? That sure would've made things more interesting.

I question why all of these people are dumb enough not to realize what a nut Rush is, then. He may be brilliant but he's also very disturbed. He framed a man for murder, for fuck's sake. While they can't summarily execute him he should be kept on a tight leash for the safety of the crew.

It's things like that which rub me the wrong way. Rush gets away with his shit constantly and when Young calls him on it, Young is the bad guy. They've all made really bad decisions--including Young leaving Rush behind--but it really says something about Rush when you're actually surprised that he did something to help someone else.

Rush gets a long leash because everyone knows he's the smartest guy on the ship and apparently the only one who gives a fuck about understanding it. They ignore his problems (which Wray should be aware of -at least the wife thing- and should've told Young about so he wouldn't be a douche to Rush since the damn pilot) because of how useful he is- and besides, he, Young, Wray, and Eli buried that "Rush framed Young for murder" thing.

But you are off the mark on Rush being in the right. It's Young that's always getting away with shit and coming off as the good guy, with his people being completely loyal despite having their doubts in Darkness, no one really calling out his fuck ups aside from Rush and Wray, and being paranoid about Rush based on flimsy evidence.

This kind of goes along with Wray not being too bright. Isn't she supposed to be skilled in psychology and HR and so forth?

Yeah, which is why Young had TJ privately chat with the civvies in Life.