Darkest episodes

[Mr Silver]

Its a concept that Gene Roddenberry refused to accept, that Rick Berman and co. embraced, Even in 400 years time, during a major crisis, Humans will resort to questionable measures, if it means a "greater good" will come out of it, thats exactly how Sisko justified his decisions in "In The Pale Moonlight"

Even though not explicitly mentioned "The Needs of the Many, Outweighing the Needs of the Few" is more or less quoted by Garak, when he tries to reassure Sisko that his actions in the "Romulan Accident" were justified

If Sisko hadn't done what he did, the Dominion would likely have conquered the Alpha Quadrant, the Romulan Empire considerably strengthened their forces and saved millions of lives

Another controversial point, that has its basis, is Section 31's "Changeling Disease", technically Section 31 were responsible for ending the war, by Odo curing the Female Changeling and then promising to cure the rest of their Species, the Female Changeling in return surrendered and the war was officially over, sure the combined Starfleet/Klingon/Romulan and Cardassian forces may have all but obliterated the Dominion's Alpha Quadrant presence, but what was stopping them from eventually returning? after all the Dominion can build forces in a rather short time, they could have retreated, rebuilt an Armada and returned a year or so later, just as the Alpha Quadrant was beginning to rebuild and recover from the War

 

[Captrek]

^Already mentioned in post #5, but yeah, certainly not one of Our Heroes' more shining moments from an ethical standpoint.

And yet it’s almost impossible to condemn the act. If Enterprise doesn’t get that warp coil, Earth dies.

It's probably easier though more depressing to assume that ship never made it home.

It makes the most dramatic sense. If a later work establishes that the Illyrians survived, it would take a lot of the punch out of Damage.

 

[DonIago]

Kind of raises the question of how many people you're reasonably allowed to possibly kill in the name of saving more people...

One has to wonder what the Illyrian code of justice would say is a fitting punishment for Enterprise's actions, and how the Coalition would respond.

Aside from less selfish intentions an argument could be made that Archer's not that far removed from Ransom as far as this situation's concerned. If Enterprise had needed more than one warp coil(?) to get underway, would Archer have ordered Enterprise to go looking for additional targets?

 

[ProtoAvatar]

Kind of raises the question of how many people you're reasonably allowed to possibly kill in the name of saving more people...

As few as possible, of course.

Such questions are quite complicated. When is more or less allowed to recourse to such actions?

Your loyalty lies - presumably - with your own peoples, not with others; this means that not all peoples are 'equal' to you. So - it's not really about mathematics.

It's about - do this people need to absolutely die; is there truly no other option?
And - another option in order to accomplish WHAT; what is your objective - mere wealth, freedom, survival? 'Mere wealth' being, morally, a joke of a reason.

And about - do you not compromise the values of your own people by your actions?
And - is this, despite this, the correct course of action, given that, if your peoples die, their values die with them?
etc, etc.

Aside from less selfish intentions an argument could be made that Archer's not that far removed from Ransom as far as this situation's concerned. If Enterprise had needed more than one warp coil(?) to get underway, would Archer have ordered Enterprise to go looking for additional targets?

Desperate people are dangerous exactly because of what they are willing to do.

I'd say the moral distance between Archer's actions and Ransom's is significant - 8+ BILLION people, the entire humanity worth of 'significant'.

Of course, as history - even recent history - teaches, it takes a LOT less than the stakes presented in star trek episodes to recourse to this kind of thinking.
See the collateral casualties from any war, fought over what are, comparatively, trivialities.
How many people died in Iraq, directly or indirectly, due to the latest Iraq war - over 1 MILLION? That's ENORMOUS - FAR more than the crew of a ship for FAR less.

 

[kirsten187]

TOS: The Empath, Conscience of the King
TNG: Chain of Command Part 2, Dark Page, The Offspring, Silicon Avatar
DS9: Whispers, Hard Time, Things Past
Voy: Tuvix, Resistance, Remember
Ent: Dear Doctor

The Empath is a terrifying episode. I first saw it only last week and it's still giving me trouble sleeping.

 

[the skullcowboy]

I personally think " In the pale moonlight " from DS9 was one of the darkest and best written of any trek series but DS9 had a plethora of such episodes like " 'nor the battle to the strong " and " the siege of AR558 "

 

[Lookingglassman]

Year of Hell was a downer

 

[sonak]

TOS: The Empath, Conscience of the King
TNG: Chain of Command Part 2, Dark Page, The Offspring, Silicon Avatar
DS9: Whispers, Hard Time, Things Past
Voy: Tuvix, Resistance, Remember
Ent: Dear Doctor

The Empath is a terrifying episode. I first saw it only last week and it's still giving me trouble sleeping.

It definitely is. And it really doesn't deserve the somewhat "forgotten episode" status that it has.

 

[Captrek]

TOS- 'Obsession', 'Mirror Mirror'
TNG- 'The Drumhead', 'Chain of Command'
DS9- 'In The Pale Moonlight', 'Inter Arma Enim Silent Leges'
VOY- 'Living Witness', 'Memorial', 'Repentence'
ENT- 'In a Mirror Darkly', 'Damage'

Afraid I can’t agree about IAMD. It’s funfic, the kind of thing Peter David might write if he wrote for TV. Zephram Cochrane and First Contact! Mirror universe! Alternate credits! A.G.! TOS sets and uniforms! CGI Tholian and another web! CGI Gorn! Portis as a Rottweiller! Too much fun for me to classify it as “dark.”

 

[kirsten187]

I manage to get about half way through The Empath before I have to turn it off.

 

[ichab]

-Duet
-Tears of the Prophets

Heck, most of DS9 the last few seasons was dark.

 

[MikeS]

I think I've seen Damage but I can't remember the details. What was the explanation for "our heroes" not being able to take the Illyrians onboard and drop them off at a latter date?

Anyone?

 

[DonIago]

Possibly because Enterprise's resources were already stretched to the limit and they simply wouldn't have been able to handle the additional people. Do we know how many Illyrians there were? Obviously Enterprise was well below peak performance at that point.

 

[BillJ]

I think I've seen Damage but I can't remember the details. What was the explanation for "our heroes" not being able to take the Illyrians onboard and drop them off at a latter date?

Anyone?

Would their odds of survival been any better? Either limping home at sub-light or being on a single, under-powered Earth starship traveling deeper into enemy territory on a mission they probably aren't (from the Illyrian perspective) coming back.

Plus we have no idea how many people were actually aboard their ship. Would there have been room on the Enterprise for them all.

Been a while since I've seen the episode.

 

[Itisnotlogical]

Pretty interesting thread. It's nice to hear some Trek episodes that don't end on a silly joke or clever one-liner.

I'll add Let That Be Your Last Battlefield from ToS into the mix. It was a little heavy-handed, but it was deadly serious all the way through and in my opinion a pretty good episode.

The Menagerie parts I and II were awesome as well, with excellent acting on the part of all involved and an awesome ending.

 

[Nightdiamond]

"Course: Oblivion" from Voyager-- it's an episode that starts off normally enough, then gets increasingly sad and gloomy.

"Day of the Dove", TOS - an attempted rape by a main crew member, bigotry between crew members, everyone at each other's throats..

That episode went to some pretty dark places.

 

[USS Excelsior]

TNG - Schisms, which also wins for creepiest episode, and another dark TNG episode is that one where the ship is trapped and the crew couldn't dream.

 

[DonIago]

^"Night Terrors"

I'll cast a vote for "Genesis". I love the shot of the ship adrift, and there's some decent tension in the episode even if it's kind of silly overall.