dailymail reports that Jack the Ripper's identity has been uncovered.

[Whoa Nellie]

Re: dailymail reports that Jack the Ripper's identity has been uncover

Just to clarify, mitochondrial DNA from bones (usually teeth) holds up pretty well. It's the "wet DNA" such as blood and semen that degrades.

Exactly. Which is why it would be absolutely fascinating if this result could be replicated and verified.

No, it really doesn't, because the shawl has been handled by many people other than the killer and the victim. There's no way to narrow the DNA donors down to just those two.

Kosminski doesn't have any other reason to come into contact with that shawl (particularly if it's his semen). May not be enough to convict him, but it's certainly enough for historical purposes.

Agreed. Not enough to convict but certainly gives 'probable cause'.

Whoa Nellie

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Re: dailymail reports that Jack the Ripper's identity has been uncover

Good point but maybe it is - no offense meant to any board members of the Jewish faith - because ever since 1945 they've been demanding so much attention. They just don't allow any of us others to consider the Holocaust simply an historical event like the 100-years-war or the age of slavery. It'll propably take another 70 years for them to accept that the past is past.

And the tradition of saying "no offense" before saying an incredibly offensive thing lives on. Hopefully one day we'll be able to put such behavior behind us and realize the past is the past.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Re: dailymail reports that Jack the Ripper's identity has been uncover

Good point but maybe it is - no offense meant to any board members of the Jewish faith - because ever since 1945 they've been demanding so much attention. They just don't allow any of us others to consider the Holocaust simply an historical event like the 100-years-war or the age of slavery. It'll propably take another 70 years for them to accept that the past is past.

And the tradition of saying "no offense" before saying an incredibly offensive thing lives on. Hopefully one day we'll be able to put such behavior behind us and realize the past is the past.

It needs a joke about wandering the desert for 40 years looking for a shekel someone dropped to be truly offensive.

 

[rhubarbodendron]

Re: dailymail reports that Jack the Ripper's identity has been uncover

Thanks, Kodos
Locutus, I trust you know me better than thinking that I'd say "no offense" just as a phrase (else you'd have banned me). I very deliberately said it precisely in order to avoid such comments because I really do not mean to offend anyone.
I don't say at all that it wasn't a horrible thing and that something like that isn't happening this very moment (I totally agree with you there, Christopher).
What I am trying to point out is that this particular event happened 70 years ago and that it is maybe time to treat it as something that happened to our great-grandparents and not a contemporary event.
As Christopher pointed out, there are plenty of similar crimes happening right now and much to my disappointment hardly anyone makes even the tiniest fuzz about it. It is unfair to the current victims to practically ignore them and instead focus so much on those wo have been dead for more than 3 generations.

Again, please remember that I am not saying either is less horrible or abominable. But there must be some proportionality. The living and currently suffering are more important imo than those who are dead.

 

[Zulu Romeo]

Re: dailymail reports that Jack the Ripper's identity has been uncover

Thanks, Kodos
Locutus, I trust you know me better than thinking that I'd say "no offense" just as a phrase (else you'd have banned me). I very deliberately said it precisely in order to avoid such comments because I really do not mean to offend anyone.
I don't say at all that it wasn't a horrible thing and that something like that isn't happening this very moment (I totally agree with you there, Christopher).
What I am trying to point out is that this particular event happened 70 years ago and that it is maybe time to treat it as something that happened to our great-grandparents and not a contemporary event.
As Christopher pointed out, there are plenty of similar crimes happening right now and much to my disappointment hardly anyone makes even the tiniest fuzz about it. It is unfair to the current victims to practically ignore them and instead focus so much on those wo have been dead for more than 3 generations.

Again, please remember that I am not saying either is less horrible or abominable. But there must be some proportionality. The living and currently suffering are more important imo than those who are dead.

But the ones you describe as dead had clearly suffered physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually in the events leading up to death - there is evidence of this in plenty of historical documents and material too numerous to list. And what you ask of us is to make like Stalin and say "One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic."

Once again, "Never Forget" is quite rightly the sentiment here. Yet by dismissing such barbarity as "just another historical event" you are very much asking people to forget. Namely, to forget the how and why of the event, and maybe even the what and who in time. And in the process of forgetting, the events of today are happening.

To quote the opening theme of a Saturday morning cartoon series, "to save the future, we must learn about the past." Also, as someone once told me at school, "those who do not learn from history class are doomed to repeat it in the summer."

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Re: dailymail reports that Jack the Ripper's identity has been uncover

Jesus christ the holocaust is NOT that long ago. I remember my mother talking about watching the newsreels in the cinema as a small child and how they traumatized her. I remember my dad talking about how an old guy at his work had his auschwitz number tattooed on his arm. I remember my friend talking about how her family had moved to australia and changed their name and everything about themselves, reinventing themselves as catholics because of their fear of being knows as jews. She discovered that as an adult, that her whole family history was a lie.

There are children and grandchildren of holocaust survivors alive right now whose lives have been stamped with what it means to be raised by people in that kind of pain, with that kind of history, who suffered and lost their whole families and towns and ways of life, having to uproot themselves and lose their very country. "Why did grandma come here mummy, why didn't she stay in Germany?" "Because evil people killed her whole family and she had move far away to be safe". This is a conversation that happens TODAY.

because ever since 1945 they've been demanding so much attention. They just don't allow any of us others to consider the Holocaust simply an historical event like the 100-years-war

The Hundred years war ended in the 15nth century.

Demanding so much attention, you mean TELLING THE STORIES OF THEIR LIVES.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Re: dailymail reports that Jack the Ripper's identity has been uncover

Don't know many who try to deny 'The Hundred Years War' ever happened, either.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

Re: dailymail reports that Jack the Ripper's identity has been uncover

Thanks, Kodos
Locutus, I trust you know me better than thinking that I'd say "no offense" just as a phrase (else you'd have banned me). I very deliberately said it precisely in order to avoid such comments because I really do not mean to offend anyone.
I don't say at all that it wasn't a horrible thing and that something like that isn't happening this very moment (I totally agree with you there, Christopher).
What I am trying to point out is that this particular event happened 70 years ago and that it is maybe time to treat it as something that happened to our great-grandparents and not a contemporary event.
As Christopher pointed out, there are plenty of similar crimes happening right now and much to my disappointment hardly anyone makes even the tiniest fuzz about it. It is unfair to the current victims to practically ignore them and instead focus so much on those wo have been dead for more than 3 generations.

Again, please remember that I am not saying either is less horrible or abominable. But there must be some proportionality. The living and currently suffering are more important imo than those who are dead.

Yeah, everyone got what you were trying to point out even before you repeated it while deluding yourself into thinking you were being less offensive the second time around. Also, no one is going to ban you. Will you stop saying that every time a mod disagrees with you?

As mentioned, the Holocaust is still in the living memory of many people. There are people who survived it directly, there are people who lost family members, there are people whose entire way of life and even the country they live in was changed because they or a relative were affected by it, so to pretend like it was some distant historical event unconnected to anyone living is extremely insulting.

Also, you mention how people have just "gotten over slavery" and treat it as an abstract historical event as if that's true for everyone (it's not, especially for the descendents of those affected), or something that should be treated that way, or that the policies and institutional racism of the slavery and post-slavery era in the US don't still have a direct affect on people today.

You say we should pay more attention to the living and move on from the past; well why can't we do both? You don't have to ignore ongoing genocide around the world to remember the Holocaust. It's not a zero sum game where you can only think about one thing at a time. In fact remembering the horrors of the Holocaust can be used as a force for good in preventing or combating the still very much ongoing (as you pointed out yet misunderstood entirely yourself) genocide and slavery of today.

There's a supreme arrogance involved in a person who is not a member of an affected group telling those that are that the time has come to just get over a massive and horrible event and move on. Who appointed you to be in charge of determining the statute of limitations on dealing with tragedy?

 

[Trekker4747]

Re: dailymail reports that Jack the Ripper's identity has been uncover

For me, everything that happened before 1979 people should just forget about it.

Seriously, the Holocaust was a horrific event that ended millions[/i] of lives not to mention those who died fighting it and it largely was targeted at one group of people.

But, we should just forget about an attempted genocide because, hey, it was so 70 years ago. Like, boor me with a spoon.

No, it shouldn't be forgotten and as there's people alive today whose lives were directly impacted by it, I think it's a bit much to say they should just get over it.

How about we give it a few more generations, eh?

 

[CaptainJohn]

Re: dailymail reports that Jack the Ripper's identity has been uncover

This is not solid enough evidence. More needs to be done to say "yes it's him", DNA the other deceased victims materials too would make it more clear who it really was.

​

 

[SPCTRE]

Re: dailymail reports that Jack the Ripper's identity has been uncover

The living and currently suffering are more important imo than those who are dead.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white

 

[Christopher]

Re: dailymail reports that Jack the Ripper's identity has been uncover

Thanks, Kodos
Locutus, I trust you know me better than thinking that I'd say "no offense" just as a phrase (else you'd have banned me). I very deliberately said it precisely in order to avoid such comments because I really do not mean to offend anyone.

Here's a tip: If you know that a statement will offend people, the best way to avoid that is not to say it. Just tacking "no offense" on the front does nothing but to demonstrate that you're aware your statement will cause offense but you've chosen to say it anyway.

 

[Sector 7]

Re: dailymail reports that Jack the Ripper's identity has been uncover

Jesus christ the holocaust is NOT that long ago. I remember my mother talking about watching the newsreels in the cinema as a small child and how they traumatized her. I remember my dad talking about how an old guy at his work had his auschwitz number tattooed on his arm. I remember my friend talking about how her family had moved to australia and changed their name and everything about themselves, reinventing themselves as catholics because of their fear of being knows as jews. She discovered that as an adult, that her whole family history was a lie.

There are children and grandchildren of holocaust survivors alive right now whose lives have been stamped with what it means to be raised by people in that kind of pain, with that kind of history, who suffered and lost their whole families and towns and ways of life, having to uproot themselves and lose their very country. "Why did grandma come here mummy, why didn't she stay in Germany?" "Because evil people killed her whole family and she had move far away to be safe". This is a conversation that happens TODAY.

because ever since 1945 they've been demanding so much attention. They just don't allow any of us others to consider the Holocaust simply an historical event like the 100-years-war

The Hundred years war ended in the 15nth century.

Demanding so much attention, you mean TELLING THE STORIES OF THEIR LIVES.

Mine is one of those stories. My great-grandfather and his son came to America after seeing the direction Hitler was taking Germany. They started a business, became successful American citizens, then returned to Germany for their wives. Sadly, the women perished in a concentration camp.

The men returned to America, re-married, converted to Christianity and here I am. Often, I wonder what my life would be like had this Holocaust not happened. Would I be visiting relatives in Germany for family reunions? Would I be worshiping in a synagogue instead of a church? Had I not seen Grandpa Josh's arm tattoo, would I even know this part of our family history? Or seen the tears my question brought to his eyes... the ONLY time I ever saw him cry? Would he have been a happier man or was it just his German stoicism?

To this day, I am the only US Navy Seal I know without a tattoo. I cannot bring myself to mark my body, knowing my family history.

These are just a few of the many thoughts and questions that have affected MY life... and I am just one of the MANY descendants of The Holocaust. Yes, it IS important to NEVER FORGET.

 

[{ Emilia }]

Re: dailymail reports that Jack the Ripper's identity has been uncover

I'm a historian and I'm appalled.

What I am trying to point out is that this particular event happened 70 years ago and that it is maybe time to treat it as something that happened to our great-grandparents and not a contemporary event.

No.

As Christopher pointed out, there are plenty of similar crimes happening right now

No.

 

[SPCTRE]

Re: dailymail reports that Jack the Ripper's identity has been uncover

I'm a historian and I'm appalled.

"I am a wizard and that looks fucked up."

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1fHmeFW0nw[/yt]

 

[Timewalker]

Re: dailymail reports that Jack the Ripper's identity has been uncover

Good point but maybe it is - no offense meant to any board members of the Jewish faith - because ever since 1945 they've been demanding so much attention. They just don't allow any of us others to consider the Holocaust simply an historical event like the 100-years-war or the age of slavery. It'll propably take another 70 years for them to accept that the past is past.

I'm not remotely Jewish, and this post offends me. The past is not past as long as people remember it, and definitely not as long as there are still living witnesses alive to tell their stories. Canadian visitors are still greeted and thanked in some European towns for what our soldiers did during World War I, let alone World War II. These people choose to remember and honor their history, and the Holocaust victims deserve no less a remembrance.

There are people still alive today who suffered in the camps. I don't understand how anyone could have the gall to tell them and their families to just get over it and quit "demanding so much attention." Telling them to shut up isn't going to change what happened.

I'm glad of the laws in Canada against hate speech and Holocaust denial. The post above reminds me all too much of the vileness that was Jim Keegstra, a high school teacher who indoctrinated his students in anti-Jewish, Holocaust-denying hate speech and other equally loathsome propaganda.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Re: dailymail reports that Jack the Ripper's identity has been uncover

Rhubarbodendron, come on. You're German, as I understand it, correct? I can understand wanting to resist being shamed for war crimes that your generation - not to mention yourself personally - never committed. To feel like you can't even take pride in your German heritage, because even your own flag demarks the atrocities Hitler's Germany committed against not just Jews, but all of Europe. I can understand feeling resentment about being burdened by those things. Germany, today's nothing like what Hitler envisioned, that's for sure.

But Germany's not going to find absolution - to say nothing of a "reset" button - by trying to "distance" itself from starting not only one world war, but two. Think of it ... There have only been 2 wars that engulfed the entire planet and both of them started by Germany. This is not a country that the entire world - to say nothing of the Jews - can afford to just let "off the hook" because of the March of Time.

What it will take to find your German pride again, I can't say, but Holocaust denial isn't it. Germany's produced some of the greatest scientific minds the world has ever known and is famous for its beer festivals (and highways, I believe). The world doesn't hate Germany for its past, but it will always know its past, because Germany caused it so much pain. And that pain is the world's history, not just Germany's. Pain like England practically being levelled and having so many historical landmarks lost forever and so many people killed along with them, in WW2. France having lost almost an entire generation of Men, during WW1.

Without even singling out Germany's attempt to wipe out every Jew, even those brief examples are alot of history that simply can't go away. Hitler almost caused Germany itself to no longer exist because of the world's deserved retaliation. Your people would be scattered, your country taken over and your culture a distant memory, belonging only to the past. It came so close to happening, thanks to Hitler. Thanks to Stalin. But the Free World insisted that some part of Germany and its way of life live on, in part to atone for what it had done, but mostly because Germans aren't evil. They just needed to rejoin the Human Race. The Free World - which includes Jews - felt that was important and made it possible for your culture to live on.

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Re: dailymail reports that Jack the Ripper's identity has been uncover

I hate the us and them thing. If you talk about "they" as in "they just don't allow us" [to dismiss] you are disconnecting yourself from the human experience at best and an anti-semite at worst.

There but for the grace, blah de blah blah.