Daedelus class sphere and disk

[mike hill]

Having recently watched a You Tube program about the Daedelus class I had a (potential?) "eureka!" moment.
The Daedelus is a sphere primary hull and a cylindrical secondary with attached warp engines.
The Connie class is a disc primary hull and a (more or less) cylindrical secondary with attached warp engines.
So, how do we get from there to here?
Well, considering that a sphere is the strongest shape in nature, then the Dadelus one makes sense as the starting point.
But the Connie primary is not an ideal disc. If you sorta squint you can see it as a sphere-ish section showing in the top 4 and lower 4 decks with a 2 deck flattened disc in the centre.
So from that, I assume that we started as a (strongest shape) sphere, which (with advances in design and materials technology) flattened out in the middle 2 decks to increase useable space without "bloating" the hull.
Of course "Enterprise" cancels that out and ymmv.

 

[C.E. Evans]

If I remember right, one of the many fan ideas floated about was that the saucer of a Constitution-class ship was designed to enter planetary atmospheres in the event of separation from the secondary hull and be capable of planetary landings. A sphere could do that too in a highly controlled descent, but a saucer may have been deemed a better design for emergency planetfall, especially if it had to make a slide crash landing (such as the one the Enterprise-D's saucer made in Generations).

 

[F. King Daniel]

If I remember right, one of the many fan ideas floated about was that the saucer of a Constitution-class ship was designed to enter planetary atmospheres in the event of separation from the secondary hull and be capable of planetary landings. A sphere could do that too in a highly controlled descent, but a saucer may have been deemed a better design for emergency planetfall, especially if it had to make a slide crash landing (such as the one the Enterprise-D's saucer made in Generations).

OMG imagine a spherical primary hull just rolling for miles and miles and miles on Veridian III

 

[publiusr]

Strike!

 

[publiusr]

Aridas had a sphere with the beginnings of a racetrack…which could be built up to a sphere…which…

Now my idea of an early warp ship always had nacelles (let the Eyemorg—not Vulcans) have ringships.

Early ships of every planet were tubes…but Earth in having a curved whip antennae to either side noted improved warp dynamics, so…

 

[Imaus]

My headcanon for how the spheres of old UE starfleet became Saucers was that:

RCS thrusters were put off and outside the hull for greater maneuverability in sub-light combat and patrol (spurred on by fighting Orion pirates and the Romulans and Kzin in the 2160 era), these outrigged RCS thusters then were armored and this became a sort of ring, thus producing the proto-saucer. The space in between the RCS outrigs and outside the saucer soon also became popular for crew quarters after the Romulan War - after all, it is there, why not use it.

Advances in armor, shipbuilding, and warp dynamics led to the gentle smoothing of the ringed-saucer design to produce what would eventually become the Constitution Class, with the sphere and ring forming together in the more organic and beautiful lines of the Connie.

It does still retain the 'volume' angle but I feel like its more of an outgrowth of necessity than anything else.

 

[Warped9]

Matt Jefferies played around with spherical hulls when working out the original design of the Enterprise, but eventually abandoned the idea. Not for any aerodynamic or structural or functional reason, but mostly because a spherical hull saps all dynamic out of the design. It looks dorky and clunky.

In science fiction a design has to have a “wow” or coolness factor to it. Spherical hulls lack that for the most part. And you want your hero ship to look cool.

I have also played around with spherical hulls and they mostly never look right. Front some angles it looks okay, but from others it looks front heavy and awkward.

 

[drt]

Not for any aerodynamic or structural or functional reason, but mostly because a spherical hull saps all dynamic out of the design. It looks dorky and clunky.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the Daedalus class at all, it looks like a garbage can with nacelles and a beach ball attached. Count me among those who are happy that ENT pretty much retconned it away.

 

[Tuskin38]

ENT pretty much retconned it away.

No it didn't. Just because we didn't see one doesn't mean they didn't exist.

The earliest known Daedalus we know of was lost in 2167, the USS Essex (TNG: Power Play), so after the series ended.

The Daedalus class shows up as a model in DS9, once in Keiko's classroom, and later in Sisko's office.

There's also a etching of one in Pike's Ready Room in SNW Season 1. Which depicted the USS Essex mentioned above. It's based off the Eaglemoss model, not the model used in DS9/Star Trek Chronology.

 

[drt]

No it didn't. Just because we didn't see one doesn't mean they didn't exist.

The earliest known Daedalus we know of was lost in 2167, the USS Essex (TNG: Power Play), so after the series ended.

The Daedalus class shows up as a model in DS9, once in Keiko's classroom, and later in Sisko's office.

There's also a etching of one in Pike's Ready Room in SNW Season 1. Which depicted the USS Essex mentioned above. It's based off the Eaglemoss model, not the model used in DS9/Star Trek Chronology.

Well, retcon would mean that the TNG/DS9 appearances would no longer matter, but I have to to concede my point with the SNW appearance.

 

[aridas sofia]

If one buys into utilitarian designs that don’t have to look sci-fi kewl, then this configuration fills the bill. My only problem with it is that the nacelles show very little evolution compared to what is seen a century later. But other than that, it is Jefferies, and added to the ringship and DY-100, it provides data for how Earth got from rockets to starships - at least in Jefferies mind.

 

[Warped9]

If someone explores an idea yet ultimately discards it then evidently they don’t think it worth much further consideration.

My biggest problem with the Daedalus-class is that the sketch was taken literally rather than used as a starting point. If one looks at Jefferies’ earliest finalized concept for the Enterprise it looks the same as the finished product only in general configuration. The finalized form and details of the 11 footer make a big difference.

Somewhere, but I can’t recall exactly where, Jefferies is quoted as to why he abandoned the spherical hull. I repeated the essence of what he said upthread, but not his exact words. But it boiled down to a spherical hull wasn’t dynamic looking and lacked visual energy.

 

[aridas sofia]

If someone explores an idea yet ultimately discards it then evidently they don’t think it worth much further consideration.

Jefferies discarded the sphere for the Enterprise. It is clear from his interviews however, that he was quite fond of the idea functionally. He just didn’t think it sold for a hero ship for a prime time show. The fact that in 1985 - long before Daedalus - I pegged his sphere-hulled design as a progenitor of later Starfleet cruisers says all that needs to be said about how I feel about it. There is cool and there is functional. Rarely, something can straddle both worlds, like the TOS Enterprise. But everything can’t and shouldn’t be an SR-71. There has to be a Super Guppy here and there, and most are just vanilla 707s. That’s verisimilitude.

 

[valkyrie013]

https://www.starfleet-museum.org/

This guy has a whole layout of pre tos ships and there evolution.
Havent read it in awhile but i think it was they changed to saucers for better warp bubble dynamics? or some type of of techno babble.

 

[Dukhat]

If I remember right, one of the many fan ideas floated about was that the saucer of a Constitution-class ship was designed to enter planetary atmospheres in the event of separation from the secondary hull and be capable of planetary landings. A sphere could do that too in a highly controlled descent, but a saucer may have been deemed a better design for emergency planetfall, especially if it had to make a slide crash landing (such as the one the Enterprise-D's saucer made in Generations).

Wasn’t the prevailing thought about the Enterprise was that those two long triangular things under the saucer was landing gear (and the third pair of landing gear was under the saucer neck), somewhat akin to the C-57D from Forbidden Planet?

 

[Henoch]

Wasn’t the prevailing thought about the Enterprise was that those two long triangular things under the saucer was landing gear (and the third pair of landing gear was under the saucer neck), somewhat akin to the C-57D from Forbidden Planet?

Yes, but I don't believe in the end it was meant for safe "tripod" landing. I also envision something like the one-way, controlled crash landing as in Generations. The three rings under the saucer could be special antigravity and/or force field generators to "cushion" the landing, while the two triangular things under the saucer are reverse thrusters to maneuver (stir/slow/stop) the saucer to a controlled landing site. Of course, the saucer could just remain in orbit/space without crash landing. I guess landing on a planet would be for survival if the life support systems can't last long enough for a rescue and the hull of the saucer was needed for shelter/protection, or the ship simply gets severely damaged while in orbit and starts to fall down (quickly, everyone jump the saucer and separate for crash landing). YMMV .

 

[C.E. Evans]

Wasn’t the prevailing thought about the Enterprise was that those two long triangular things under the saucer was landing gear (and the third pair of landing gear was under the saucer neck), somewhat akin to the C-57D from Forbidden Planet?

For a long time, I thought that was indeed the case, but the more I looked at models of the TOS Enterprise, the more I thought those triangles may be cargo bay doors or maybe even emergency airlocks/planetfall ramps.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I'll bet that if the TV Enterprise had a sphere up front, then 2001: A Space Odyssey would have gone a different way with the Discovery. I don't know what way, but different. The Discovery would not and could not copy Star Trek.

My tentative thesis is that a movie does not want to be accused of copying somebody else's TV show. For example, Interstellar aimed its wormhole at a whole other galaxy, which is insane and plot-unnecessary, but it sidestepped undue comparisons to Deep Space Nine. And incidentally to Contact with Jody Foster.

TV shows are more willing to copy from a movie. The 2001 sphere design was possibly copied by Buck Rogers (the Searcher in season 2), and Josie and the Pussycats in Outer Space (unless they were blatantly riffing on the male anatomy).

The Starlost had habitat domes very similar to the ones in Silent Running— and that giant Ark ship was the best thing in the show, walking away. It was the only thing I remember tuning in for.

 

[mb22]

I'll bet that if the TV Enterprise had a sphere up front, then 2001: A Space Odyssey would have gone a different way with the Discovery. I don't know what way, but different. The Discovery would not and could not copy Star Trek.

2001 began filming before Trek premiered on television. How likely is it that Kubrick et al in the UK got a chance to see Enterprise designs? It's possible that someone might have seen advance Trek publicity, but I don't know how likely that was.

 

[FederationHistorian]

No it didn't. Just because we didn't see one doesn't mean they didn't exist.

The earliest known Daedalus we know of was lost in 2167, the USS Essex (TNG: Power Play), so after the series ended.

The Daedalus class shows up as a model in DS9, once in Keiko's classroom, and later in Sisko's office.

There's also a etching of one in Pike's Ready Room in SNW Season 1. Which depicted the USS Essex mentioned above. It's based off the Eaglemoss model, not the model used in DS9/Star Trek Chronology.

And the ENT novels suggest that the Daedalus class actually predates the NX class by a decade, and was supposed to be the original warp 5 ship, but was destroyed in an accident in its maiden voyage. And the Deadalus class later saw service because they could be produced en masse quicker than an NX class or Intrepid-type.

Its better to think that at the very least, the Deadalus designs are laying around Starfleet in Archer's era, just waiting to be used.