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CW network working on Batwoman series

GamerGate is when people I knew on the internet became openly and proudly racist, sexist and homophobic. Trump is when my neighbors, co-workers and fellow church members became openly and proudly racist, sexist and homophobic.

It still blows my mind how emboldened white supremacists became thanks to a reality TV host and a cult sci-fi actor. Reality's fucking weird.
 
Trekker4747 said:
When thinking of an "even" that seemed to kick off this more extreme vocal hatred, Gamergate comes strongest to mind. Yeah, there was stuff before that, but since Gamergate it seems more and more bile and hatred has been expressed to the point of driving celebrities off Social Media and to even turn down roles. (Like ScarJo turning down a role playing a Transman recently.)
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That's not the same thing at all. Johanssen wasn't driven out of the role by harassment -- rather, the protests made her recognize that it was inappropriate for her to play a role that should be played by a trans performer, and she stepped down voluntarily. Just as Ed Skrein chose to step down from the Hellboy reboot when the protests of the whitewashed casting led him to realize that the character was supposed to be Japanese. Actors don't always know the history of the characters they take on, and these are cases where the public protests helped them learn better and realize they shouldn't have taken those roles in the first place. That's activism bringing positive change, which is the opposite of hateful bullies hurting people.
 
Kane_Steel said:
So apparently the hate that drove her off Twitter actually came from SJWs.

Supposedly Ruby Rose isn't butch Lesbian enough to be Batwoman, who some Lesbian fans see being less feminine in appearance.

And apparently she isn't Jewish, which upsets some people.

I figured most superhero fans wouldn't care about CW's Batwoman either way. It's just another low budget CW soap on the network, that will probably be mediocre like all their other shows. If you're gonna roll out LGBT heroes in a way that won't polarize and divide people, this is the network and way to do it.

However, understandably so, some lesbians seem very attached and emotionally invested in this Batwoman character and see the Ruby Rose casting as below their standards.
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That's what I said earlier: the ****heads in this particular case were wrongheaded members of the LGBT community who, for some reason, don't see the prejudice and bias inherent in trying to hold people to some stereotypical "standard of lesbianism".

It's the "you're not a real fan" gatekeeping syndrome taken to the extreme and applied to a person's sexual orientation, and it's extremely disgusting.
 
Lol. In this particular case.. all I can say is, who cares.

Honestly.. it's CW's Batwoman.... it's going to be as cheesy and mediocre as the other CW shows. It's not worth the effort of attacking the actress.

This seems to only be a passionate issue for the LGBT community, who are seeing this as some big step for representation. They seem to have an issue with Ruby Rose being their representation here, and that's what drove her off social media.


DigificWriter said:
That's what I said earlier: the ****heads in this particular case were wrongheaded members of the LGBT community who, for some reason, don't see the prejudice and bias inherent in trying to hold people to some stereotypical "standard of lesbianism".

It's the "you're not a real fan" gatekeeping syndrome taken to the extreme and applied to a person's sexual orientation, and it's extremely disgusting.
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That level of hypocrisy isn't surprising. It's present in all groups, on all sides.
 
It's disgusting how she's been treated over taking on this role. What makes it even sadder is how excited and honoured she was about playing the role during her interview with Jimmy Fallon. It feels somewhat like kicking a puppy:weep:
 
Awesome Possum said:
Gatekeeping is a serious issue and one that hurts a lot of people. It seems to happen a lot with scifi/fantasy fandoms.
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I think part of the problem is that for a long time, SF/fantasy was a niche interest that was looked on with scorn by the mainstream, so genre fans developed a fair amount of defensiveness and insecurity about their interests. And for many people, that defensiveness and insecurity remain even now that SF/F is mainstream and legitimized. So they're still fighting, but now they're punching down at those subgroups who are still on the margins.
 
Christopher said:
I think part of the problem is that for a long time, SF/fantasy was a niche interest that was looked on with scorn by the mainstream, so genre fans developed a fair amount of defensiveness and insecurity about their interests. And for many people, that defensiveness and insecurity remain even now that SF/F is mainstream and legitimized. So they're still fighting, but now they're punching down at those subgroups who are still on the margins.
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I understand what you are saying but this is literally a case where the bullied has become the bully.
 
I think people should divorce this Ruby Rose situation from "fandom" because, in the end, it's not really * about * "fandom"; it's about stereotyping and exclusion.
 
Maybe we need to stop using the term “fandom”? It seems to represent many different types of people with tastes, expectations, and politics that rarely lineup.

I am an individual fan. Who shares similar tastes to some others but not everything. I get no particular satisfaction in indentifying myself with a vaguely defined group.
 
The LGBT community has a right to complain and be critical of Ruby Rose though. She and this show are supposed to be representation for them, and this show is basically for them, and the comics character seems to have a big gay fanbase.

John Campea commented on this. Being critical of casting choices is totally fine.
 
People have a right to complain and be critical, sure, up to a point.

Conversely, the networks aren't "supposed" to do anything, they can represent who they and want how they want. They can change the source material or stick closely to it. But fans are owed absolutely nothing.
 
Kane_Steel said:
The LGBT community has a right to complain and be critical of Ruby Rose though. She and this show are supposed to be representation for them, and this show is basically for them, and the comics character seems to have a big gay fanbase.

John Campea commented on this. Being critical of casting choices is totally fine.
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Coming after Ruby Rose for not fitting some stereotypical "standard of lesbianism" is not being critical; it's being discriminatory and exclusionary.
 
Kane_Steel said:
The LGBT community has a right to complain and be critical of Ruby Rose though. She and this show are supposed to be representation for them, and this show is basically for them, and the comics character seems to have a big gay fanbase.

John Campea commented on this. Being critical of casting choices is totally fine.
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Yes, but there is a line between complaining and harassment.
 
Kane_Steel said:
The LGBT community has a right to complain and be critical of Ruby Rose though. She and this show are supposed to be representation for them, and this show is basically for them, and the comics character seems to have a big gay fanbase.

John Campea commented on this. Being critical of casting choices is totally fine.
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I think that it is the way this is happening. Also, saying that there is some right and wrong way to self-identify one's gender and sexuality seems contrary to the entire inclusion movement.
 
theenglish said:
I think that it is the way this is happening. Also, saying that there is some right and wrong way to self-identify one's gender and sexuality seems contrary to the entire inclusion movement.
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It is, some people are just assholes. For the most part it's mostly a minority and most people in the LGBTQ community are open to everyone else, finding the gatekeeping to be unacceptable. But there's enough to cause problems.
 
Kane_Steel said:
The LGBT community has a right to complain and be critical of Ruby Rose though. She and this show are supposed to be representation for them, and this show is basically for them, and the comics character seems to have a big gay fanbase.

John Campea commented on this. Being critical of casting choices is totally fine.
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They should still be glad they cast someone who is gay, a lot of producers wouldn't even do that.
 
JD said:
They should still be glad they cast someone who is gay, a lot of producers wouldn't even do that.
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It's true, it's called "acting", they literally could have cast anybody that fit the look they wanted, but they narrowed it down even more, to very little thanks unfortunately. Or, at least, the loudest people drown out the thankful ones.
 
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