That is probably the best comment yet. I agree makes my answer look really dumb though i kinda said the same thing.
Currency in Star Trek?
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That is probably the best comment yet. I agree makes my answer look really dumb though i kinda said the same thing.
I thought this page was interesting for listing different types of money mentioned on Star Trek, including Cardassian "leks", Bajoran "litas", and Klingon "darseks". Where were Orion "sinics" first mentioned?
In the first Shatnerverse novel Ashes of Eden, Klingons use "talons". When I read it as a teenager, I rolled my eyes at the thought of the writer not coming up with something more alien. Now I wonder if it wasn't smart. Humans value pretty gems and metals; Klingons value trophies of hunts. What's harder to catch than a bird yet is also plentiful enough to use as currency? Plus, I imagine the "talons" allude to some nasty talons from nasty Klingon birds.
In the first Shatnerverse novel Ashes of Eden, Klingons use "talons". When I read it as a teenager, I rolled my eyes at the thought of the writer not coming up with something more alien. Now I wonder if it wasn't smart. Humans value pretty gems and metals; Klingons value trophies of hunts. What's harder to catch than a bird yet is also plentiful enough to use as currency? Plus, I imagine the "talons" allude to some nasty talons from nasty Klingon birds.
Just like in real life, people have to work shitty jobs to have computers, microwave ovens, DVD players, etc. Some things never change.
Robert
About the UFP being "benevolent Communism":
I'm not about to state political or socio-economic views or argue about modern day systems. But I think "Communism" might not be quite the right term, for isn't the basis of Marxism and Communism ownership of the means of production by the workers (or, in some variants, peasants)? I get the notion that there isn't much of a proletarian class in the UFP. I think it'd be closer to some sort of socialism or social democracy.
Though I really think it's something unlike anything we have today and is as difficult for us to understand as Trek's transporters, FTL travel, or replicators. It just works, somehow.
Of course, I really don't know what I'm talking about, so please disregard as necessary.
I'm not about to state political or socio-economic views or argue about modern day systems. But I think "Communism" might not be quite the right term, for isn't the basis of Marxism and Communism ownership of the means of production by the workers (or, in some variants, peasants)? I get the notion that there isn't much of a proletarian class in the UFP. I think it'd be closer to some sort of socialism or social democracy.
Though I really think it's something unlike anything we have today and is as difficult for us to understand as Trek's transporters, FTL travel, or replicators. It just works, somehow.
Of course, I really don't know what I'm talking about, so please disregard as necessary.
^ I thought it was very well said. The concept of moneyless system and the UFP's political structure may be well beyond our comprehension. Both seem to use concepts and ideas well outside what we use today.
And after reading through the thread, I would like to quietly point out that we may be forgetting to account for the technology present in the 24th Century. Many of the mundane occupations, or "dirty jobs" if you will, may be done automatically with only minimal human (or alien) monitoring. The basic technological infrastructure of a metropolitan area may have evolved to the point that society would have no need to "work" in the capacity we do today. I am not saying it would all be "point and click" but much of the hard or menial labor would be shouldered by machines leaving the population to concentrate on other pursuits.
And after reading through the thread, I would like to quietly point out that we may be forgetting to account for the technology present in the 24th Century. Many of the mundane occupations, or "dirty jobs" if you will, may be done automatically with only minimal human (or alien) monitoring. The basic technological infrastructure of a metropolitan area may have evolved to the point that society would have no need to "work" in the capacity we do today. I am not saying it would all be "point and click" but much of the hard or menial labor would be shouldered by machines leaving the population to concentrate on other pursuits.
Well its a little bit different, see in that future they wouldn't just get thrown on the street as homeless, with no health care, or safety from nature, like regular people.
But see in this future also, see people would get to do what makes the happy and whole inside. It would be the lazy that would have to work terrible jobs to get a computer.
No, you know what your talking about and i agree 100%. Its a lot better to call it socialism and social democracy.
More technology changes to the more complicated governments may have to change to keep up.
If one person is just living off the system and receives basic shelter and food, but someone else who does work receives perks like better housing, food, clothes, travel, etc., then you still have "money' just in a different form. You're not getting folding money, you're building up compensation in an account somewhere, and while that not physical currency, it is "money."
All money really is, is a medium of exchange. It's also compensation for effort, but it's not always cash.
Problem is the 24th century that we've seen holds very few robots or mobile machines. They are an oddity, not a standard. In the episode where Troi is taking her bridge officer qualification test, she doesn't casual tell LaForge to send a robot into the radioactive chamber, she sends LaForge himself ... to his death.
.
Your right, we didn't see a whole lot of robots doing the unpleasant work. What did you see every time the enterprise came out of dock, those two humans in suits. on the boardwalk.
Your right about what i said. I didn't mean better food. The person would didn't work still got the same food, healthcare,clothes.
But when it came to entertainment or relax tools, they didn't get those accommodations. I could be using that word wrong. But thats what i meant.
In both those instances you are referring to issues with production. (This is, after all, only a television show and we have to acknowledge the limitations forced upon the medium.) Troi's choice of sending LaForge was done to further the story and to ultimately illustrate the point the writer was making. On the other hand, robots and other complex machines would be difficult to produce on a budget, especially for a one-off use in a scene somewhere. But for the "in-universe" side of things, you are also overlooking various forms of nanotechnology and matter-energy conversion technology. Both would probably not be apparent to the casual observer. Just because we didn't see it doesn't mean it isn't there working in a sub-basement or behind a wall.
Even though it isn't technically canon, I would suggest reading the TNG or DS-9 Technical Manuals for more information about 24th Century technology. Both those volumes have some interesting information regarding utilities and support systems of that era. Even though it is specific to starships or orbital starbases, the tech presented could easily be used for ground based facilities as well.
There are shit jobs and then there are shit jobs. I would concede automation tech would make jobs like steet cleaning by a person obsolete. But people can still hate jobs that require a person with high training. Let's say a Fed citizen's dream is to be a writer but frankly he sucks at it, no one reads the stuff he chruns out. So he's told in order to get perks he has to do something more productive. So he becomes a replicator repairman and hates the job because he'd rather be bettering himself with his bad writing.
OR, he claims people are too ignorant to know his good writing when they see it and he deserves all the perks he wants. So they give it to him as he continues to churn out writing that no one reads.
Ah, life is good in the Federation.
Robert
OR, he claims people are too ignorant to know his good writing when they see it and he deserves all the perks he wants. So they give it to him as he continues to churn out writing that no one reads.
Ah, life is good in the Federation.
Robert
In both those instances you are referring to issues with production. (This is, after all, only a television show and we have to acknowledge the limitations forced upon the medium.) Troi's choice of sending LaForge was done to further the story and to ultimately illustrate the point the writer was making. On the other hand, robots and other complex machines would be difficult to produce on a budget, especially for a one-off use in a scene somewhere. But for the "in-universe" side of things, you are also overlooking various forms of nanotechnology and matter-energy conversion technology. Both would probably not be apparent to the casual observer. Just because we didn't see it doesn't mean it isn't there working in a sub-basement or behind a wall.
Even though it isn't technically canon, I would suggest reading the TNG or DS-9 Technical Manuals for more information about 24th Century technology. Both those volumes have some interesting information regarding utilities and support systems of that era. Even though it is specific to starships or orbital starbases, the tech presented could easily be used for ground based facilities as well.
If you remember voyager, The holo-doctor found out that it was his type of hologram that was mining or cleaning.
Holo-doctor: Cough
patient:cough-cough
Holo-doctor: I can't feel a thing.
Given that he sucks at writing, maybe he could teach a class on writing.
True.
Robots aren't seen stationary in the background of scenes, they're never referred to in any fashion aboard the ship in the dialog. The exocomps were regarded as unusual by both Picard and LaForge.
If we neither see nor hear about it, yes that a strong suggestion that "it" isn't there. We don't see toilets, but we do see bathrooms. We don't see laundries, but we see clean clothes. Nothing has ever been fixed aboard a ship where a robot fixed it (excepting Data).
I own both, no robots, no nano-tech robots (nanites), given that neither tech manual mentions them would help indicate that they largely don't exist.
^ It better be. The idea that there are no robots or robotic automation in-universe is utterly absurd. It would be as fantastical an element as the sound we hear in space. "No, I will not install this roomba or phaser-sweeper in the main shuttle bay. Now grab that laser-toothbrush and I'll see you in a week."
on Dune we use melange.
and water.
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Given their technology it is unusual event, they certainly could have non-sentient robots if they choose too. My supposition is that Human society, and maybe the Federation in general, has a cultural aversion to robots. Similar to the cultural aversion to genetic engineering that run through future Human society.
Jim Kirk definitely had a problem with some types of computers, the servant never the master.
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