Curious about Janeway/Chakotay...

[stardream]

I don't know why they just didn't leave the whole Janeway/Chakotay thing open ended. They get home and there is the possibility they might get together. She would have fulfilled her mission and I would assume the would no longer be serving together.

I don't know why they had to put Seven in a relationship at all. Let her explore her humanity a little more on earth. Get to know different types of people and enjoy the process of learning new things.

Her relationship in the re-launch books annoys me a little. Not to the point where I would stop reading them but I could have easily done without it.

 

[A Chimpanzee & 2 Trainees]

I'm glad that J/C never took off during the show. Relationships with subordinates aren't a good idea, and probably forbidden by some Starfleet regulations.

I, just like most people, really disliked C/7. I feel Seven's first romantic relationship should have been with the Doctor, and very short-lived. Janeway helped Seven explore her moral self, but the Doctor was her social mentor.

It makes sense with her Borg past that she'd be drawn to a machine, and the person who's teaching her to explore her social humanity is additionally at least an understandable first target for affection.

Given that the Doc obviously held feelings for her, and his propensity for losing his objectivity sometimes, it makes sense that he'd allow her to pursue a relationship, at least initially.

I see it being over very quickly though. Seven would see the Doctor as a potential suitor with which she could have her notion of the perfect relationship, and re-programs his social responses to meet what she perceives as her needs, and of course it all ends badly. I'd like to see the crew's reactions to the Doc starting to act more Borg-like around them ...

As far as a relationship with Chakotay is concerned, I could see her trying to start a relationship with him, but she quickly becomes irrationally frustrated with him and it's over. He quickly figures out that she's not emotionally ready. From her perspective, his actual responses are so much different than her simulations of him, she learns painfully that relationships aren't as easy as she thought, and in the process showing both of them that Seven is not emotionally ready for romance yet. She's emotionally still a child in a lot of ways, or at least should be.

 

[Ghislaine H. B. BRAEME]

I'm glad that J/C never took off during the show. Relationships with subordinates aren't a good idea, and probably forbidden by some Starfleet regulations.

Well, the superior officers are supposed to show the example, especially a capitain and/or a 1st officer. So yes, relationships with subordinates aren't a good idea and furthermore, forbidden.
(If Chakotay had been a civil member, well it would have been possible even If it made such a cliché!, but frankly, don't you think that Janeway and her 1st officer had hands enough occupied between the conflicts with ennemies to be managed and the missions of explorations to think to a romance or simply sex?! Well, ok, Paris & Torres made it very often and in the end, it ended in Miral's birth but, they didn't have to manage a vessel of 150 people! ).

I, just like most people, really disliked C/7. I feel Seven's first romantic relationship should have been with the Doctor, and very short-lived. Janeway helped Seven explore her moral self, but the Doctor was her social mentor.

Well, it seemed to me that Seven wasn't emotionally ready for romance yet (come on, she's a child in adult's body who keeps learning every day on herself and on the world which surrounds her, including social rules). So, whoever she chooses as a first romantic relationship, it would be a shot-lived romance which would have of strong chance to end badly, simply because expectations from both parts would be too different.
And I imagine her very well, to contact very regularly Janeway and The Doctor, her two mentors to have explanations.

Given that the Doc obviously held feelings for her, and his propensity for losing his objectivity sometimes, it makes sense that he'd allow her to pursue a relationship, at least initially.

The Doctor holds feelings for Seven, it's a fact but up to there, he knows that this attraction is one-sided (and besides, if you remember well, she made him understand it quite early and on several occasions during their journey on Voyager), what won't prevent him from fantasizing over her body of course, but it will go never far, too aware that any vague desires from him to want more, would have grave consequences on the special bond they managed to form through their years on Voyager.
(Seriously, the only people with whom Doctor maintains a special relationships are Janeway and Seven. And I don't think that he would be ready to waste all this for a moment of madness).

About Chakotay/7, the worst possible pairing, I'm just curious to see if it will be made a reference to this romance in Star Trek Renegades... .

 

[Lynx]

About Chakotay/7, the worst possible pairing, I'm just curious to see if it will be made a reference to this romance in Star Trek Renegades... .

If there is such a reference and/or if there is any reference to the events in a certain insulting season 6 episode, then I'll stop watching there and then.

As for the Janeway/Chakotay pairing, I can understand that there was no such thing during the journey home. But why coudnt it have been a "happy ending" in the last episode?

Or at least they could have left it open ended.

Instead they insulted a large group of fans with that Seven/Chakotay thing.

 

[nerdyfangirl74656]

When VOY first came out, I didn't see the J/C chemistry. I was more into Tom & B'Elanna. Probably because I was closer to their ages.
I have recently started watching VOY again and now I can totally see it. Chakotay's angry warrior speech in Resolutions was so beautiful, I was crying too. The Q and The Grey, Coda, Scorpion Part 1, Year of Hell, all have examples of J/C shippy moments. I saw Shattered the other day and it is full of J/C chemistry. Again, maybe it's because I'm closer to Janeway's age and see relationships a bit differently now.
I found out about the J/C relationship in the Kirsten Beyer books about a month ago so I downloaded them all and have read them all!
In a way, I can understand Kate Mulgrew's reluctance in having Janeway pursue a relationship with Chakotay. In all likely hood, the writers would have completely stuffed it up, but it would have been nice in the last few eps if J & C got together instead of C7.

 

[2takesfrakes]

I'm a fan of Chakotay and could easily have seen him become fast friends with Riker. And while there were a couple of romances Riker was involved with that are truly embarrassing (Minuet and Soran), at least he wasn't all like ... longing and yearning, for years after a semi-good looking woman. By the same token, Chakotay found himself in Voyager's unique situation, being stuck with only what's available onboard, all that time. So, naturally, he was on short rations, as far as women go and ... I don't know ... we covet what we see. And he saw a lot of Janeway on the bridge, in meetings, on Away Missions. But it makes one wonder whether he would've been so attracted, had the DQ situation been known to be, say ... short of a year.

I'm confident that he would've been more selective in that even if he was serious about giving Janeway a shot, once she rejected him, he would've quickly moved on. But if Kate was cool with Janeway and Chakotay hooking up, then I would be cool with it. It's really the sighing at her, from across the room and the occasional pangs of jealousy regarding her that compromise the character, really. It's reminiscent of Nurse Chapel pining for Spock and we all know where that went. I guess that's it, too. Any fan of this paring would have to know, way in advance, that they're coming out of this series empty handed!

 

[nerdyfangirl74656]

I'm a fan of Chakotay and could easily have seen him become fast friends with Riker. And while there were a couple of romances Riker was involved with that are truly embarrassing (Minuet and Soran), at least he wasn't all like ... longing and yearning, for years after a semi-good looking woman. By the same token, Chakotay found himself in Voyager's unique situation, being stuck with only what's available onboard, all that time. So, naturally, he was on short rations, as far as women go and ... I don't know ... we covet what we see. And he saw a lot of Janeway on the bridge, in meetings, on Away Missions. But it makes one wonder whether he would've been so attracted, had the DQ situation been known to be, say ... short of a year.

I'm confident that he would've been more selective in that even if he was serious about giving Janeway a shot, once she rejected him, he would've quickly moved on. But if Kate was cool with Janeway and Chakotay hooking up, then I would be cool with it. It's really the sighing at her, from across the room and the occasional pangs of jealousy regarding her that compromise the character, really. It's reminiscent of Nurse Chapel pining for Spock and we all know where that went. I guess that's it, too. Any fan of this paring would have to know, way in advance, that they're coming out of this series empty handed!

I'm sure I read somewhere that Riker and Janeway went on a date when they were both cadets? Or Riker asked Janeway on a date and she turned him down? If so, It looks like Chakotay and Roker have something in common

 

[nerdyfangirl74656]

I'm sure I read somewhere that Riker and Janeway went on a date when they were both cadets? Or Riker asked Janeway on a date and she turned him down? If so, It looks like Chakotay and Roker have something in common

*Riker, not Roker

 

[2takesfrakes]

Riker was used to only the hottest women ... Deanna, Mistress Beata, Ro Laren, etc. So, the idea that he'd want to knock boots with Janeway doesn't coincide. I mean, she's motherly, you know? She doesn't have the sex-appeal required to catch the fancy of someone of Riker's caliber. However, Kate and John de Lancie's looks complimented eachother, quite well, I thought. It's such a shame that it's a Q episode and he couldn't just play some guy who happened to look like Q. Maybe put a porn stash on him, to give him a different look, or something ... I don't know.

 

[Catarina]

Riker was used to only the hottest women ... Deanna, Mistress Beata, Ro Laren, etc. So, the idea that he'd want to knock boots with Janeway doesn't coincide. I mean, she's motherly, you know? She doesn't have the sex-appeal required to catch the fancy of someone of Riker's caliber. However, Kate and John de Lancie's looks complimented eachother, quite well, I thought. It's such a shame that it's a Q episode and he couldn't just play some guy who happened to look like Q. Maybe put a porn stash on him, to give him a different look, or something ... I don't know.

Now hold on, let's play 'what if she's right?' Back in his Cadet days maybe he still had a latch on mum's boob right and so for a brief nano second granny panty girls were hot to him until Janeway's cold maternal exterior snapped him into a life of trombone stroking for the more fun and vivacious ladies. Thoughts?

 

[nerdyfangirl74656]

Now hold on, let's play 'what if she's right?' Back in his Cadet days maybe he still had a latch on mum's boob right and so for a brief nano second granny panty girls were hot to him until Janeway's cold maternal exterior snapped him into a life of trombone stroking for the more fun and vivacious ladies. Thoughts?

I doubt Janeway was "motherly" as a young cadet. Or she may have been the ice queen that every man wanted to thaw For all we know being turned down by her, could have broken Riker's heart so badly that he never recovered. Hence, his lothario ways
And according to Memory Beta, this occurred in a novel called Lifeline.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Now hold on, let's play 'what if she's right?' [...] Thoughts?

My thoughts are that you two ladies are in cahoots! ... I've been cahooted.

 

[nerdyfangirl74656]

 

[stardream]

The only reason Janeway appears to be 'motherly' is because she has been forced to take on that role with her crew due to their unusual circumstances. If she were in command back in the Alpha Quadrant I highly doubt she would give that impression.

 

[Catarina]

Stardream: I was just tossing out a theory not that I believe it . that's exactly what i feel the circumstances were. they were put upon her.

 

[stardream]

My post wasn't really directed at anyone in particular...just the subject in general.

 

[Katinka]

I think Kate/Kathryn looks awesome at least for the first few seasons. I am in season 5 of the rewatch and there she sometimes doesn't look so hot (nor does Chakotay, I have to say). But "motherly" or "semi-good-looking" just doesn't seem to be a fair description. I agree with stardream, motherly isn't a word I would choose to describe her even if she volunteers for the role of Seven's "coach", I really see her more as a mentor than a mother.
Moreover does a woman have to be gorgeous to be loved and admired? Seriously, isn't that just a tad superficial? Is it really so unimaginable that Chakotay (or any man) would love the good-looking, interesting, complex woman that Kathryn is over the admittedly gorgeous but emotionally immature Seven who would probably think that most things that make a relationship fun and interesting are "inefficient"?
River?! I can't stand Riker, I can't imagine how any woman can be attracted to him. He seems dull, full of himself and the facial hair ... don't get me started.
J/C was a logical option to go with, understated and tastefully done it would have been beautiful, believable and would have made scores of fans happy. C/7 was ridiculous and is best forgotten or reinterpreted as some nightmare or alternate dystopian reality in a parallel evil universe.

 

[2takesfrakes]

I doubt Janeway was "motherly" as a young cadet. Or she may have been the ice queen that every man wanted to thaw For all we know being turned down by her, could have broken Riker's heart so badly that he never recovered. Hence, his lothario ways
And according to Memory Beta, this occurred in a novel called Lifeline.

When Janeway met Riker in "Death Wish" ... I thought she was gonna drop an egg:

I was looking for a picture which might give an approximation of Janeway in her cadet years with Riker, as a jokey thing. Not expecting to find anything of note. Then I discovered this vintage shot of Kate, looking quite toothsome in her harper seal fur jacket. Fem to the Nth Degree, of course. Everything just as it should be. Not only do I - only now - understand this Riker/Janeway shipping/pairing ... whathaveyou ... I give it my blessing and fullest support.

 

[nerdyfangirl74656]

Janeway is a BAMF.

 

[2takesfrakes]

"Kathryn, your roots need doing ..."

Just to steer us back on course - just a little bit, now - I'm still unsure what Kate's problem was with Janeway needing a Man in her day-to-day Life?

I suspect it has to do with being adverse to acting out love scenes. Kissing, even, must be incredibly awkward, especially when it's so 'mechanical,' as it were and they might not even like their costar, in the first place. I've also heard that some celeb couples have these odd agreements with one another, where they'll eat raw unions and shit like that, to turn off their hot leads! HmmmBOY!!! But you know what?

Chakotay & Kathryn need not have even kissed, as an onscreen couple. Holding hands and touching, in general, I'm sure she'd be amenable to. Throw in a line, or two, of dialogue where they declare their undying love for eachother, each week and I'm sure that would've been more than sufficient and satisfactory, to all audiences ...