I had to google that one since apparently it was before my time, so for a change I *don't* feel old and therefore I approve!
Spoilers Crisis on Infinite Earths Discussion (CW Event Spoiler Thread)
- Thread starter Mark_Nguyen
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No, it's heavily implied that Lex did it when the Paragons were "fanning the fire". The wink he gave Supergirl was him taunting her because he remembered.
What I'm hoping now is that the shows kind of reset as they can really undo some weak directions.
Here is their out with Lena for example.
It sure seems that Jefferson's Earth is now merged with Earth Prime, but my question now is why these 3 Earths?
Why did other Earths stay in tact? It seems clear that's exactly what happened.
Why did Earth 96 Superman emerge from the Crisis without the black on his crest? Did his history get altered so that the Joker never killed his Lois?
If so, then the aftermath of this Crisis has other effects, like maybe Smallville Clark did not give up his powers.
But let's assume that didn't happen. Why were three Earths merged but all the other ones not?
Maybe we could argue that this was by design. Spectre is the hand of God, and if that's the case, Oliver was simply creating a world pursuant to God's plans. It would explain why Earth 38 Alex dominated Earth 1 Alex. God could have taken aspects of each doppleganger and merged them in a favorable way.
I do think that Earth Prime has the potential to be better. It's a chance to reset some things and correct some issues.
A perfect example of that is Sarah Diggle's existence. If only the main characters remember the previous multiverse, then the writers have a chance to really make things different.
What doesn't work is the entire first part of the season of Black Lightning. If Jefferson is on Earth Prime, then that entire plot is ridiculous.
Is Diggle's last name still Diggle? Maybe he could be John Stewart now. THAT would be an applaud worthy decision.
Lots of questions.
Here is their out with Lena for example.
It sure seems that Jefferson's Earth is now merged with Earth Prime, but my question now is why these 3 Earths?
Why did other Earths stay in tact? It seems clear that's exactly what happened.
Why did Earth 96 Superman emerge from the Crisis without the black on his crest? Did his history get altered so that the Joker never killed his Lois?
If so, then the aftermath of this Crisis has other effects, like maybe Smallville Clark did not give up his powers.
But let's assume that didn't happen. Why were three Earths merged but all the other ones not?
Maybe we could argue that this was by design. Spectre is the hand of God, and if that's the case, Oliver was simply creating a world pursuant to God's plans. It would explain why Earth 38 Alex dominated Earth 1 Alex. God could have taken aspects of each doppleganger and merged them in a favorable way.
I do think that Earth Prime has the potential to be better. It's a chance to reset some things and correct some issues.
A perfect example of that is Sarah Diggle's existence. If only the main characters remember the previous multiverse, then the writers have a chance to really make things different.
What doesn't work is the entire first part of the season of Black Lightning. If Jefferson is on Earth Prime, then that entire plot is ridiculous.
Is Diggle's last name still Diggle? Maybe he could be John Stewart now. THAT would be an applaud worthy decision.
Lots of questions.
Yeah, they do look promising. The Supergirl one is very very Lex-centric, which can only be a good thing.
That was a very Geoff Johns-ian ending, wasn't it? Especially coming on the heels of Doomsday Clock last month. It takes the parts of the original Crisis on Infinite Earths -- "let's merge the universes into a single, streamlined continuity" -- and Infinite Crisis and Thy Kingdom Come -- "the multiverse is still there beside the streamlined universe." And if one takes Doomsday Clock into account, then the CW pre-Crisis Earth-1 and Earth-38 (and all of the other Earths wiped out) still exist in the Multiverse. Very Johns-ian, indeed. Thus, something like Black Lightning could continue unchanged on its Earth, while a Black Lightning also exists separately on Earth-Prime, if that's the way the producers want to go.
On the next episode of Black Lightning, Cisco opens communications with Freeland, Caitlin works with Lynn on the cure, Supergirl and Thunder team up to take out Tobias and Lex absconds with Odell to figure out the secrets to metahumans.
Meanwhile, on TrekBBS, TREK_GOD_1 achieves an apotheosis of apoplexy.
Also, SPOILER FROM THE FLASH TRAILER:
Cisco said the multiverse doesn't exist, when clearly, we saw that it does.
Cisco said the multiverse doesn't exist, when clearly, we saw that it does.
I really like that the color change to Earth-96 Superman's "S"-shield (a detail I admittedly missed on first viewing in my giddy excitement) implies a happier status quo for him than the Kingdom Come inspired original. I'm assuming on his reformed Earth, the Daily Planet massacre never happened. A much more satisfying place to leave the Reeve/Routh Superman (or whatever amalgamation or variant you believe the character represents).
I was disappointed that we didn't see The Hand cradling the Big Bang when Ollie-Spectre restarted the multiverse at the end of part four.
I'd rather see a Routh Superman series on the new Earth-96 at this point. He really plays a goofy Clark Kent harking back to a time where he had a secret identity (which seems to be an non-existent plot issue with CW-Superman these days).
Well, that was pretty epic. So they did merge the Earths, just not all the Earths, only the three CW Earths. I didn't want them to, didn't think they needed to when it's quicker to hop between realities with an extrapolator than it is to take your trash out to the curb. But now that they have merged the Earths, I just hope they do something with it. The way it's been for the past couple of years is that the shows don't connect to each other at all even when they are on the same Earth. So the only way merging the Earths makes sense is if they actually make use of the merging in routine episodes rather than just once a year in the crossovers.
And there are bound to be continuity glitches when writers overlook a likely consequence of the rewritten history. There's already been one: the President saying that Green Arrow was considered the first hero. In the merged history, Superman should be the first hero, since he was already an established hero when Kara's pod crashed in 2003. Of course that line was metatextual, acknowledging Oliver as the first Arrowverse hero, but it's problematical in the new continuity.
Still, it was neat to see the Justice League formally established, although they didn't use the name. Again, I hope they use it for more than just the December events. I could've done without the Gleek nod, but it was also a funny callback to the Grodd Easter egg in the Flash pilot. And it was a nice touch to cast Marv Wolfman as the fan who informed Flash and Supergirl about the merged world. Hey, it's appropriate, since he was the guy responsible for it!
It's interesting that they kind of merged Mar Novu with Krona, the figure in DC history whose probe into the Dawn of Time created the Multiverse (and the Monitor and Anti-Monitor as a side effect). It makes it a bit more efficient.
I wonder if Lex just rewrote himself as a hero to cover up his evil schemes, or if he genuinely intends to try being a good guy for a while. He did say at the Dawn of Time that it was "interesting" to feel like a hero.
Anyway, I'm glad we got that final montage bookending the crossover and confirming that the rest of the Multiverse endures. I mean, it had to; The CW couldn't permanently destroy or merge any of the separate TV or movie universes. I'm just glad we got the confirmation, and got a few more worlds acknowledged. (Including the Green Lantern movie Greg Berlanti co-wrote and had originally been slated to direct, I believe, as well as all three DC Universe streaming series. And did we just get confirmation that the upcoming Stargirl series is set on Earth-2?) I'm disappointed we didn't get any nods to Lois & Clark or Superboy, or to Nolan Batman or Krypton. But getting Ezra Miller's Flash was delightful. I was hoping they'd do that, and they did.
Of the changes they've made, I think my favorite is that they've restored Sara Diggle to life, that John and Lyla now have both their children. It corrects the injustice of Sara being erased in favor of John Jr.
No, they were together. Grant Gustin posted a photo of them meeting on the set: https://www.cbr.com/crisis-on-infinite-earths-grant-gustin-ezra-miller-photo/
However, when I rewatched Parts 1-3 last night, I realized that in Tom Ellis's cameo as Lucifer, he must have filmed his part separately from the other three actors, since there was never a shot including them together. You only saw shots of Lucifer by himself or over the others' shoulders, intercutting with shots of them reacting to him, and there's one shot of Lucifer over Constantine's shoulder where you can tell that it's a stand-in and not Matt Ryan. The first shot had Constantine knocking on the door, then moving out of frame when it opened to reveal Lucifer, but that's a simple split-screen effect.
I'm glad it didn't, because Laurel-2 is a much richer and more interesting character (and somehow much better-looking). It'd be a shame to erase all her character growth.
Besides, Earth-2 still exists as a separate reality, so Laurel-2's journey wouldn't have been merged with Laurel-1's.
Although come to think of it, I guess this means that the Earth-1 versions of Alex and James that we met in Elseworlds no longer exist as distinct individuals.
Oliver's voiceover at the end could be taken to imply that he might still exist in some Spectral form.
I seem to recall news that the show was casting for two teenage boys, so the timeline rewrite may be, quite unsurprisingly, an excuse to age up baby Jon.
Interesting idea, but I doubt they'll merge any other Earths. I assume Earth-1 and Earth-38 were merged because all the Paragons (once Lex replaced Superman-96) were from those two Earths, and it was their combined will that restarted the Multiverse. Although that doesn't explain why Black Lightning's Earth got roped in as well.
Yeah, that's disappointing. I'm thinking that either they couldn't get the Psycho Pirate actor back, or the story just ended up going in a different direction than they'd expected. Stories have a way of doing that.
I doubt they'd do that, since it would confuse the viewing audience. They've had doppelgangers before, of course, but have always made them distinct enough from each other in appearance and personality to be easy to tell apart.
Besides, the episode description for the next BL episode mentions Jefferson adjusting to his new reality. I'm really surprised that they brought his world into the mix too -- I really figured the BL producers would've preferred to keep things separate and focus on their own distinct, grittier storytelling approach -- but apparently that's the case going forward. I wonder what other changes we'll see in the other shows.
And there are bound to be continuity glitches when writers overlook a likely consequence of the rewritten history. There's already been one: the President saying that Green Arrow was considered the first hero. In the merged history, Superman should be the first hero, since he was already an established hero when Kara's pod crashed in 2003. Of course that line was metatextual, acknowledging Oliver as the first Arrowverse hero, but it's problematical in the new continuity.
Still, it was neat to see the Justice League formally established, although they didn't use the name. Again, I hope they use it for more than just the December events. I could've done without the Gleek nod, but it was also a funny callback to the Grodd Easter egg in the Flash pilot. And it was a nice touch to cast Marv Wolfman as the fan who informed Flash and Supergirl about the merged world. Hey, it's appropriate, since he was the guy responsible for it!
It's interesting that they kind of merged Mar Novu with Krona, the figure in DC history whose probe into the Dawn of Time created the Multiverse (and the Monitor and Anti-Monitor as a side effect). It makes it a bit more efficient.
I wonder if Lex just rewrote himself as a hero to cover up his evil schemes, or if he genuinely intends to try being a good guy for a while. He did say at the Dawn of Time that it was "interesting" to feel like a hero.
Anyway, I'm glad we got that final montage bookending the crossover and confirming that the rest of the Multiverse endures. I mean, it had to; The CW couldn't permanently destroy or merge any of the separate TV or movie universes. I'm just glad we got the confirmation, and got a few more worlds acknowledged. (Including the Green Lantern movie Greg Berlanti co-wrote and had originally been slated to direct, I believe, as well as all three DC Universe streaming series. And did we just get confirmation that the upcoming Stargirl series is set on Earth-2?) I'm disappointed we didn't get any nods to Lois & Clark or Superboy, or to Nolan Batman or Krypton. But getting Ezra Miller's Flash was delightful. I was hoping they'd do that, and they did.
Of the changes they've made, I think my favorite is that they've restored Sara Diggle to life, that John and Lyla now have both their children. It corrects the injustice of Sara being erased in favor of John Jr.
No, they were together. Grant Gustin posted a photo of them meeting on the set: https://www.cbr.com/crisis-on-infinite-earths-grant-gustin-ezra-miller-photo/
However, when I rewatched Parts 1-3 last night, I realized that in Tom Ellis's cameo as Lucifer, he must have filmed his part separately from the other three actors, since there was never a shot including them together. You only saw shots of Lucifer by himself or over the others' shoulders, intercutting with shots of them reacting to him, and there's one shot of Lucifer over Constantine's shoulder where you can tell that it's a stand-in and not Matt Ryan. The first shot had Constantine knocking on the door, then moving out of frame when it opened to reveal Lucifer, but that's a simple split-screen effect.
I'm glad it didn't, because Laurel-2 is a much richer and more interesting character (and somehow much better-looking). It'd be a shame to erase all her character growth.
Besides, Earth-2 still exists as a separate reality, so Laurel-2's journey wouldn't have been merged with Laurel-1's.
Although come to think of it, I guess this means that the Earth-1 versions of Alex and James that we met in Elseworlds no longer exist as distinct individuals.
Oliver's voiceover at the end could be taken to imply that he might still exist in some Spectral form.
I seem to recall news that the show was casting for two teenage boys, so the timeline rewrite may be, quite unsurprisingly, an excuse to age up baby Jon.
Interesting idea, but I doubt they'll merge any other Earths. I assume Earth-1 and Earth-38 were merged because all the Paragons (once Lex replaced Superman-96) were from those two Earths, and it was their combined will that restarted the Multiverse. Although that doesn't explain why Black Lightning's Earth got roped in as well.
Yeah, that's disappointing. I'm thinking that either they couldn't get the Psycho Pirate actor back, or the story just ended up going in a different direction than they'd expected. Stories have a way of doing that.
I doubt they'd do that, since it would confuse the viewing audience. They've had doppelgangers before, of course, but have always made them distinct enough from each other in appearance and personality to be easy to tell apart.
Besides, the episode description for the next BL episode mentions Jefferson adjusting to his new reality. I'm really surprised that they brought his world into the mix too -- I really figured the BL producers would've preferred to keep things separate and focus on their own distinct, grittier storytelling approach -- but apparently that's the case going forward. I wonder what other changes we'll see in the other shows.
Stargirl's Earth-2 is not the same Earth-2 that existed prior to CoIE, so I really think that the Laurel who'll be involved in "Green Arrow and the Canaries" is the original Laurel, not Black Siren Laurel.
Source? Genuinely curious.
It's obvious from watching CoIE Part 5 and from everything that we know about the Stargirl TV series.
The original Arrowverse Multiverse was completely wiped out and was not recreated, so everything that existed in it is gone, and what exists in its place is a brand-new and considerably smaller Multiverse.
In short, it's an assumption on your part. Got it.
^ It's not an assumption because it's obvious based on documented evidence.
It’s not obvious at all. And until they outright say it in the show, it’s speculation on your part.
I thought she said one of the first, not the first?