Creative Punishment

[Arpy]

Happy Thanksgiving, everybody. I'm doing some self-flagellating on this American High Holy Day and watching VOY's "False Profits." The one with the two Ferengi who got lost in the Delta Quadrant through the Barzan Wormhole in TNG's "The Price."

In the episode we find out that after seven years the Barzan end of the wormhole is still stable but the Delta Quadrant end jumps around too fast for a ship to take advantage of even at high warp.

It got me thinking as to what use the Barzan end could be and the first thought was as a form of creative "capital" punishment. In the event that a criminal cannot be rehabilitated back into society, what if they were exiled to distant space with no hope of ever getting back? Say by sending them out by shuttle that deposits them on the nearest class-M world or space station (with appropriate supplies), then self-destructs so as not to allow for situations such the one in "False Profits" where the replicator made the Ferengi local gods.

Alternatively, the wormhole could offer those who seek adventure or a one-way trip to a new home that option, much in the way the New World offered something similar to the religious Pilgrims who we in-part celebrate on this Thanksgiving Day.

 

[Timofnine]

In your hypothetical scenario, the Barzan wormhole could deposit some criminals in a better place though, which does not seem quite fair really does it.

 

[Arpy]

In your hypothetical scenario, the Barzan wormhole could deposit some criminals in a better place though, which does not seem quite fair really does it.

Not necessarily. Those who aren't sociopaths would forever miss home, maybe the possibility to have children or at least those of their own kind. Those that are, well, the nearest class-M world could be completely empty. They'd be alone the rest of their (possibly short/painful) lives. the nearest station could be of a brutal people who enslave them or an enlightened one that could rehabilitate them themselves. They'd maybe be left with an identification device of some kind that would warn whoever came into contact with them.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

Given that the Barzan wormhole's far terminus moves at random, isn't this just dumping someone off at random points in space? Seems like there's better ways to punish criminals.

 

[1001001]

Just exile them on Ceti Alpha V.

That seems to work out okay.

 

[Zapp Brannigan]

Just exile them on Ceti Alpha V.

That seems to work out okay.

As long as you count planets correctly.

 

[Arpy]

Given that the Barzan wormhole's far terminus moves at random, isn't this just dumping someone off at random points in space? Seems like there's better ways to punish criminals.

I love your profile pic!

Eh, I'm just thinking about possibilities. If the Barzans (Arbazan?) wish to employ exile, well, this is one hell of a way to make sure it's permanent.

Additionally, self-flagellation complete: we find out at the end of the episode that the Ferengi meddling destabilized both ends of the wormhole. No more wormhole frontier.

I suppose that means that the Ferengi could be anywhere. They could have gotten back to Barzan II or to anywhere that the other end might have deposited them.

 

[Shawnster]

Or you let some criminal loose on an unsuspecting, innocent civilization.

 

[NCC-73515]

Maybe the random ends found each other and those Ferengi are now in an eternal loop

 

[Oddish]

Just find an uninhabited class L world close to home, then leave them on it with enough low-tech survival gear to assure that they can survive. No transport, no communication, nothing that can be reverse engineered. And, make sure there's a heavily armed patrol ship handy to deter any outside rescue attempts.

 

[Citiprime]

I know Voyager eventually screws it up and changes it where both sides of the wormhole is unstable, but I've always wondered whether Starfleet might have still found value in negotiating an agreement for the use of the Barzan wormhole?

I was thinking along the lines of Stargate: Atlantis. They basically dial Atlantis and open the stargate with no guarantee of being able to return from the Pegasus Galaxy.

It would seem in-keeping with Starfleet's mission that they might go with the idea of outfitting ships for possible extreme long-term deployment and chance sending vessels through the Barzan wormhole to see what they find on the other side. Send them on deep-space voyages mapping the galaxy, and they would take the chance of ending up at a random destination.

 

[Farscape One]

Happy Thanksgiving, everybody. I'm doing some self-flagellating on this American High Holy Day and watching VOY's "False Profits." The one with the two Ferengi who got lost in the Delta Quadrant through the Barzan Wormhole in TNG's "The Price."

In the episode we find out that after seven years the Barzan end of the wormhole is still stable but the Delta Quadrant end jumps around too fast for a ship to take advantage of even at high warp.

It got me thinking as to what use the Barzan end could be and the first thought was as a form of creative "capital" punishment. In the event that a criminal cannot be rehabilitated back into society, what if they were exiled to distant space with no hope of ever getting back? Say by sending them out by shuttle that deposits them on the nearest class-M world or space station (with appropriate supplies), then self-destructs so as not to allow for situations such the one in "False Profits" where the replicator made the Ferengi local gods.

Alternatively, the wormhole could offer those who seek adventure or a one-way trip to a new home that option, much in the way the New World offered something similar to the religious Pilgrims who we in-part celebrate on this Thanksgiving Day.

Interesting idea, though I'd have to say for the punishment part, it makes no sense.

First, that's dumping a problem onto another world. Particularly if they were a primitive culture, that criminal would be in a position to take great advantage over them. (They don't need actual technology to do it... just enough knowledge that is ahead of that society is enough. If they didn't have the bow and arrow, for example, that criminal can take over a large area and have slaves do his bidding. This is similar to what the Goa'uld did to countless worlds in SG-1.) Also that criminal could go on a killing spree if they felt like it, with no repercussions.

Second, there's no way of guaranteeing that person is sent away to a place that isn't inhabited.


I do agree that the idea of this for those who just want to explore a potentially unknown area of space is a better idea. Definitely has possibilities, but there would be some hurdles to overcome... like knowing if they arrived safely in the first place. Prime Directive issues would apply, too, if they end up in an area that is primitive. (For example, the ship they leave in sustained heavy damage and are forced to crash land on a world inhabited by a primitive society. That can lead to a lot of problems.)

 

[Arpy]

Dumping the problem on others might be a problem. But. There are a lot of class-M planets in the galaxy, most of which probably don’t have any kind of evolved life on them. It’s probably like a 1 in 10,000+ chance they’re meeting anyone on them.

But okay, say you don’t want to make it an issue for anyone whatever the unlikely chance may be. No psychopaths. But what about nonviolent or even political prisoners? I mean, who are we really exiling anyway? (Again, sociopaths wouldn’t care about not seeing anyone again.)

And what kind of people use exile as a punishment, and as one more humane than prison—or at least death? ‘Wormhole’ might fit under the unusual part of cruel and unusual…though they are aliens.

 

[Farscape One]

Dumping the problem on others might be a problem. But. There are a lot of class-M planets in the galaxy, most of which probably don’t have any kind of evolved life on them. It’s probably like a 1 in 10,000+ chance they’re meeting anyone on them.

But okay, say you don’t want to make it an issue for anyone whatever the unlikely chance may be. No psychopaths. But what about nonviolent or even political prisoners? I mean, who are we really exiling anyway? (Again, sociopaths wouldn’t care about not seeing anyone again.)

And what kind of people use exile as a punishment, and as one more humane than prison—or at least death? ‘Wormhole’ might fit under the unusual part of cruel and unusual…though they are aliens.

But if the other side of the wormhole is unstable, you still have no idea and no way of knowing whether there are other people on a nearby planet or not.

For all you know, the wormhole can exit straight into the gravity well of a star and that person burns to a crisp.

 

[Arpy]

But if the other side of the wormhole is unstable, you still have no idea and no way of knowing whether there are other people on a nearby planet or not.

For all you know, the wormhole can exit straight into the gravity well of a star and that person burns to a crisp.

I’m not seeing the downside.

 

[Oddish]

It seems a bit like forcing a condemned person to play Russian Roulette, instead of simply imposing a set punishment for their crime.

 

[at Quark's]

We don't know how unstable that wormhole end is. If, on one extreme, it can pop up anywhere in the DQ (or perhaps even in other galaxies), there's no telling where those criminals might end up, and that's a dangerous gamble in principle because we don't know what they'll find there. And even if the chances of them ever returning are remote they might still wreak havoc on other worlds. If , on the other extreme, it essentially always pops up near the same system, just shifting too fast for any ship to make use of, we know it is in a system where they could exploit an innocent civilization, as those Ferengi did before.

So, in either of both cases, it's probably not a good idea.

 

[Weyoun 251]

It seems a bit like forcing a condemned person to play Russian Roulette, instead of simply imposing a set punishment for their crime.

Agreed - surely the UFP has something akin to "cruel and unusual" punishment being outlawed and this would seem to meet it.

Imagine if we just stuck criminals on a boat and sent them out into the ocean for them to be dragged wherever the currents would take them?