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"Countdown" canon? / "Countdown" Shotdown.

Jeyl

Commodore
Commodore
There you have it. There were no "borg enhancements", there was no Picard, no "B4" Data, no Worf confrontation, no meaning to the mourning tattoos and no so called "passing of the torch" that the comic was built on containing.

cugel the clever asked the question:

"In “Countdown”, the Narada effortlessly destroyed an armada of 24th century Klingon warships and disabled the Enterprise-E with one volley. However, in the film, the Kelvin actually managed to exchange fire and survive for at least several minutes. Care to explain this inconsistency?

And the reply?

Easy. The comic is not canon?

And my reply,

Next time you aim to waste my time, patience and money, have the decency to tell that to the writers, artists and crew who worked on this comic. And if you did, I would like to hear on what they had to say about being told that their work was not canon. Because Mike Johnson was asked if he thought the book was canon and had this to say:

"Well I do, I think it is important that the writer does. The writer has to think that what they are doing is part of what has come before and what is to come."

Bob?

"Star Trek: Countdown lays the groundwork for what happens in the movie. It’s our way of passing the baton from the Next Generation characters and their movies to the new film." (after movie's release) "The comic is not canon"

Sure, go ahead and say that no Star Trek comics were canon and revel in the fact that you discount some potentially great stories to be had that are far more entertaining than this movie was. I myself who bought both the four countdown comics and the paperback edition would love to hear Bob's reaction if I was the head chief of Paramount telling him and his writing comrade that their work is not canon and therefore doesn’t matter. What would you tell your fans if you were having to deal with this?
 
Re: "Countdown" Shotdown.

Eh, the comics weren't that great to begin with. Interesting but flawed execution. I say, instead of having a different group of people write their prequel comic, they'd have been better served by having the script writers handle it. There's bound to be discrepencies due to changes made during the production of both, otherwise.

Having re-read your post (particularly the last paragraph), I see this is yet another the movie sucked and pretty much anything else Star Trek is better, which apparently includes the meh Countdown comics. Not really an argument I want to get involved with again.

I will say, however, that were they to redo the comics, following the same general idea but better meshing them with the movie without losing the Next Gen stuff, I'd be interested.
 
Re: "Countdown" Shotdown.

Eh, the comics weren't that great to begin with. Interesting but flawed execution. I say, instead of having a different group of people write their prequel comic, they'd have been better served by having the script writers handle it. There's bound to be discrepencies due to changes made during the production of both, otherwise.

Well, they weren't excellent, but they sure as heck did a good job at setting up for the movie for trekkies. Heck, if it was great, I would have liked it better than the actual movie it lead up to!
 
Re: "Countdown" Shotdown.

There you have it. There were no "borg enhancements", there was no Picard, no "B4" Data, no Worf confrontation, no meaning to the mourning tattoos and no so called "passing of the torch" that the comic was built on containing.

cugel the clever asked the question:

"In “Countdown”, the Narada effortlessly destroyed an armada of 24th century Klingon warships and disabled the Enterprise-E with one volley. However, in the film, the Kelvin actually managed to exchange fire and survive for at least several minutes. Care to explain this inconsistency?

And the reply?

Easy. The comic is not canon?

And my reply,

Next time you aim to waste my time, patience and money, have the decency to tell that to the writers, artists and crew who worked on this comic. And if you did, I would like to hear on what they had to say about being told that their work was not canon. Because Mike Johnson was asked if he thought the book was canon and had this to say:

"Well I do, I think it is important that the writer does. The writer has to think that what they are doing is part of what has come before and what is to come."

Bob?

"Star Trek: Countdown lays the groundwork for what happens in the movie. It’s our way of passing the baton from the Next Generation characters and their movies to the new film." (after movie's release) "The comic is not canon"

Sure, go ahead and say that no Star Trek comics were canon and revel in the fact that you discount some potentially great stories to be had that are far more entertaining than this movie was. I myself who bought both the four countdown comics and the paperback edition would love to hear Bob's reaction if I was the head chief of Paramount telling him and his writing comrade that their work is not canon and therefore doesn’t matter. What would you tell your fans if you were having to deal with this?


Don't suppose you'd care to provide a link showing where these quotes came from?
 
Re: "Countdown" Shotdown.

Having re-read your post, I see this is yet another the movie sucked and pretty much anything else Star Trek is better, which apparently includes the meh Countdown comics.

Thank you for that. No, the movie didn't suck, it was just disappointing. It had elements of Star Trek that I liked, and some elements I didn't like. I'm not going to tell people to not see this movie or say that it ruins Star Trek. It doesn't. It's just going on a path that I'm not interesting in following.
 
Re: "Countdown" Shotdown.

Sure, go ahead and say that no Star Trek comics were canon and revel in the fact that you discount some potentially great stories to be had that are far more entertaining than this movie was. I myself who bought both the four countdown comics and the paperback edition would love to hear Bob's reaction if I was the head chief of Paramount telling him and his writing comrade that their work is not canon and therefore doesn’t matter. What would you tell your fans if you were having to deal with this?

Judging by what's been said in the Trek Lit forum for years now, I'm sure no one involved would give a shit.
 
Re: "Countdown" Shotdown.

Don't suppose you'd care to provide a link showing where these quotes came from?

Here's the article on the recent Trekmovie.com's FAQ with Ocri and Kurtzman. Even includes a highlight section which states that "Inconsistencies between film and "Countdown" can be explained that the comic is not canon".

This is the Countdown comic article that contains the interview with Mike Johnson regarding his point of view of Canon.

This article has quotes from Bob Orci regarding the Countdown Comic.
 
Re: "Countdown" Shotdown.

Judging by what's been said in the Trek Lit forum for years now, I'm sure no one involved would give a shit.

Ya. Writers, artists and publishers should be constantly releasing stuff and saying it shouldn't count. Why would anyone do that? Star Trek Countdown wasn't labled as a "Fictional Star Trek Story" or "Fan written prequel", it was billed as the "Official Movie Prequel". Why call it official if you don't count it?
 
Re: "Countdown" Shotdown.

Maybe to throw us off the scent? They are breaking the story for the sequel as we speak, and he did say he would love to see TNG revisited in some way sometime.
 
Re: "Countdown" Shotdown.

I'll say this: I'm happy without the Narada's Borg enhancements. It makes some sense to me that a research-poor Empire would build massive mining ship juggernauts in the same ways that the Federation builds ships for exploration. We just hadn't seen them 'til now. ;)
 
Re: "Countdown" Shotdown.

we really dont know were the idea for the comics came from/
actually orci had several quotes about them in that interview.
 
Re: "Countdown" Shotdown.

If you read Orci's subsequent comments, his "it's not canon?" with a question mark is actually telling. He subscribes to the (quite widespread among even diehard fans) notion that if it isn't on screen--no matter how good--it isn't canon and he is not in a position to alter that policy, as he sees it.

And the authors of Trek Lit. have ALWAYS known that what they write is "not canon". That's a red herring of an argument to hold against Orci in this case.
 
Re: "Countdown" Shotdown.

One's enjoyment of a movie, book or comic shouldn't hinge on whether an arbitrary party deems it "real" or not.
 
Re: "Countdown" Shotdown.

One's enjoyment of a movie, book or comic shouldn't hinge on whether an arbitrary party deems it "real" or not.
Quite so. My favourite Trek novel is John M. Ford's The Final Reflection and I do not allow its non-canonical status to affect my enjoyment of it whatsoever.
 
Re: "Countdown" Shotdown.

Generally, I'd agree that it's a widely accepted fact that the books and comics aren't canon. On some very rare occasions, however, there seem to be some exceptions made to this rule, and Countdown struck me as one of those times.

Overall, Countdown certainly wasn't perfect, but I think it was a decent lead-in to the film, providing some important (some might argue crucial) background on Nero, his relationship with Spock, the details of Spock's mission, and the destruction of Romulus.

I personally think it can still be viewed as canon if anyone wants to look at it that way. Sure, there are a few minor inconsistencies, but nothing that can't be explained away if you use your imagination a bit (yes, I suppose I'm advocating some fanwanking here -- so be it). How did the Kelvin last as long as it did against the supposedly Borg-enhanced Narada? Perhaps the Narada suffered some major system damage from going through the black hole/time portal.

In any case, I think you can take what you want from Countdown. If you think it's canon, great... if not, hey, no loss.
 
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