Could they have replaced Shatner/Kirk?

[Zaminhon]

Shatner is an over-actor, plain and simple. It's just not about the pauses, it's the entire package. I love his treatment on "The Family Guy" which parodies him to the extreme.

You can't count things like that, because ever since Airplane II, Shatner has based his career largely on parodying his own exaggerated reputation as a ham. It would be nonsense to interpret that self-parody as being the same as his dramatic acting style, when there's a wealth of filmed evidence proving the difference.

This is the same unfair stereotyping that ruined Adam West's career. He was a superb actor, and on Batman he was hired to overact and he did a brilliant job of doing just what was asked of him, which unfortunately led people who couldn't tell comedy from reality to believe that overacting was all he was capable of. And like Shatner, he never really had a career renaissance until he stopped fighting that stereotype of being a ham and embraced it. He, too, has built his modern career on parodying his own image. And while I'm glad he bounced back, it's always upset me that he was never given his due as a serious actor.

It's not stereotyping, everything he's done, from Twilight Zone, The Outer limits, TJ Hooker, Columbo, Denny Crane in The Practice and the Boston Legal is in the same style. For an even more exaggerated performance watch the 1966 Esperanto film, Incubus. I didn't even need a translation, his body language and hand gestures said it all.

 

[Christopher]

It's not stereotyping, everything he's done, from Twilight Zone, The Outer limits, TJ Hooker, Columbo, Denny Crane in The Practice and the Boston Legal is in the same style.

Oh, good grief, not even close. Denny Crane is the modern self-mocking Shatner, completely different from the relaxed, understated Shatner of the Twilight Zone years. (Sure, he's famous for bugging out at the gremlin in "Nightmare at 20,000 Feet," but watch his performance in "Nick of Time" for contrast.) I'll grant that Shatner's acting tended to get bigger after 1967 or so -- I figure it's a consequence of the tinnitus he developed after an on-set explosion, the strain and distraction that the constant ringing in his ears would've created -- but he was a lot more understated before then. And if you can't see that difference, then you must not be looking.

And again, it's only a modern fashion that big, broad acting is "bad." Yes, Shatner's often a broad actor, but that's the way most acting was done for hundreds or probably thousands of years, because actors didn't have movie or TV cameras to get right up close to them and capture subtle performances. There are good broad actors and bad broad actors, and Shatner, like West, is a good broad actor. (I mean, look at Olivier's Henry V sometime. It's incredibly hammy by today's standards. But Olivier's considered one of the finest actors of all time.)

 

[Maurice]

There's little hammy about Shatner in the more calm scenes in the first half season of Trek. His performance in "Balance of Terror" etc. I always noticed his "big" moments became "bigger" around the time Coon comes on the show.

 

[Trekkin]

In 'Boston Legal', they once used footage from his role in 'The Defenders' to depict Denny in his younger years. The contrast in the two performances was staggering, to put it mildly. Keep in mind that I haven't seen much of The Defenders, and what I have hasn't included Shatner. For all I know, that was just an unusually low-key scene.

He was a little OTT in his Outer Limits ep. He has to do a lot of 'I'm cold, I'm in pain, I going nuts!' stuff and, well...Shatner.

 

[Zaminhon]

He's right at home ...

[yt]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW7AuyIwN2A[/yt]

Anyway, I don't have a problem with him, it's just his style which gives him a unique place among over-actors.

 

[Maurice]

He's right at home ...

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Anyway, I don't have a problem with him, it's just his style which gives him a unique place among over-actors.

To be fair, I don't think someone delivering lines phonetically in a language he doesn't speak is a fair test of his baseline acting skills.

 

[Zaminhon]

It's just jaw-dropping fun to watch - those pauses and mannerisms are there no matter which language he's speaking in.

 

[Drone]

It's kind of interesting to think about, but if Wang is to be believed, we saw an evolution from TOS where Shatner was certainly not discouraged, by Roddenberry or anyone else I guess, from being overtly dynamic, larger than life, and obviously as some firmly believe OTT, whereas 30 years later, under a new administration, but supposedly trying to carry on the torch of GR's original vision, we hear that the crew was asked to play down their reactions and line readings in favor of aliens being the focus of the intense dramaturgy.

Again, this is predicated on putting credence in what Wang has repeatedly said about instructions given to the crew members of the cast by TPTB. I'm not sure I've ever heard any of his ex-colleagues verify that story when he's related it at conventions, so it may very well be a load of bollocks that he trots out to make himself seem like a go to source on inside information about the show. Also, I have to say that such a proposition wasn't particularly validated by what we actually saw on Voyager, so again I guess, buyer beware!!

 

[Push The Button]

Kirk gone, Spock takes over as captain...sounds like The Tholian Web. That was a near-disaster for Spock, further proof that science, and not command, was his true calling.

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

It's not stereotyping, everything he's done, from Twilight Zone, The Outer limits, TJ Hooker, Columbo, Denny Crane in The Practice and the Boston Legal is in the same style.

No, its not. In the 70s, he did not parody himself as suggested in more recent performances. In fact, he returned to the general style used in early TOS and other roles of the period, seen in episodes of Ironside ("Walls Are Waiting," 1970) or even when the role called for intensity, it was not the parody of the post T.J. Hooker years, such as his role the famous TV Civil War court drama, The Andersonville Trial (also 1970). The same could be said of his role in the 1977 horror film, Kingdom of the Spiders.

The ridiculous, satire-minded culture (initiated by shoddy TV comedy variety shows) ran with a false claim for years, and it influenced nearly all opinion of his ability, much like the people who accused post-TOS Nimoy of playing versions of Spock in everything from Rod Serling's Night Gallery, the TV film Baffled!, to the remake of Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Both were wrongheaded, if not wrong

 

[YJAGG]

Kirk gone, Spock takes over as captain...sounds like The Tholian Web. That was a near-disaster for Spock, further proof that science, and not command, was his true calling.

Um unless they wrote it differently, look at Galileo 7

 

[lordsofelsewhen]

They could of replaced Shatner and gave nimoy and the others more lines..

 

[Maurice]

Kirk gone, Spock takes over as captain...sounds like The Tholian Web. That was a near-disaster for Spock, further proof that science, and not command, was his true calling.

Um unless they wrote it differently, look at Galileo 7

How's that different? Spock blows it there, too.

 

[Zaminhon]

I thought Spock did a commendable job in "That Which Survives". Not only were his one liners extremely entertaining but he was also a slave driver..

Mr. Scott. .. I'll sit on the warp engines myself and nurse them.
Mr. Spock: That position, Mr. Scott, would not only be unavailing, but also... undignified.

Mr. Spock: You have 8 minutes, 41 seconds.
Mr. Scott: I know what time it is. I don't need a bloomin' cuckoo clock!

 

[YJAGG]

Kirk gone, Spock takes over as captain...sounds like The Tholian Web. That was a near-disaster for Spock, further proof that science, and not command, was his true calling.

Um unless they wrote it differently, look at Galileo 7

How's that different? Spock blows it there, too.

How did he blow it ? He got most of his people back alive, like any Kirk centric story

 

[Melakon]

How did he blow it ? He got most of his people back alive, like any Kirk centric story

Spock had a crew of seven, including himself. Two died, a little over 28%. For it to be equivalent, Kirk would have had to lose at least 119 people on the Enterprise in a single episode.

 

[Relayer1]

Shatner's a star.

I don't really know what that means, but he (still) is one - watch Boston Legal.

You don't just replace that...

 

[BillJ]

How did he blow it ? He got most of his people back alive, like any Kirk centric story

The way he approached command made the officers under him doubt his ability to lead. He didn't know his people, nor why their customs were important to him.

He improved as the series progressed, but he was a poor leader in "The Galileo Seven".

 

[YJAGG]

How did he blow it ? He got most of his people back alive, like any Kirk centric story

Spock had a crew of seven, including himself. Two died, a little over 28%. For it to be equivalent, Kirk would have had to lose at least 119 people on the Enterprise in a single episode.

Or the same as 33% as Kirk in his trip to Cetus 3 -(where only Spock thought the invite was fishy and chastised for his concern) Kirk also lost 50% of his away team in "What are little girls made of" and another 33% in Man Trap.


The way he approached command made the officers under him doubt his ability to lead. He didn't know his people, nor why their customs were important to him.

He improved as the series progressed, but he was a poor leader in "The Galileo Seven".[/QUOTE]

As pointed out by Troi's command test sometimes you need to send a person to their death, you join the Fleet you should know the risks, regardless of the color of your shirt.

I doubt you get to be the 2nd in command if you are not competent leader, I think Spock would stayed behind if they needed one man to stay planet side, he was stronger than humans and after all Scotty was needed to work the shuttle.

I disagree, Spock's officers were bigoted whiners, not behaving as soldiers, but like panicked children, putting their own prejudice above their training and respect for the chain of command. Boma wants to draw lots for who has to stay planet side, and gets pissy from the get go.

Did Spock care about their customs? maybe but trying to get as many folks home alive he had to focus on the big picture.

Spock offers to help with Latimer's body and is rebuked by Boma. Yes Spock blows off the funeral service for Latimer, but did Kirk leave the bridge in TWOK for Scotty's nephew, no.

Spock even admits in G7 that perhaps it will take more than just logic to get out the situation.

Spock accepted that idea of scaring off the cavemen but was opposed to not just killing the aliens, but putting his crew in more danger.

If the crew killed some of the cavemen, would they have reacted the less or the same or worse.

I am sure Fleet would agree with Spock's choice.

And even when he knows it is a waste of time he helps bury the dead.

It reminds me of Data commanding the Sutherland, the XO is down right insubordinate because he puts his prejudice ahead of his training.