Could "The Starlost" be remade today?

[arch101]

I really liked The Starlost. There wasn’t much Sci fi on tv in the late ‘70s so it was much appreciated. You just kinda had to use your imagination with the effects, much like Dr Who of the same era. Wouldn’t mind seeing a streaming service take a crack at it.

 

[Professor Zoom]

I thought Galactica 1980 was the show that went up against 60 Minutes. The early time slot meant they had to make it more "educational" etc. At least that's what I understood from the So Say We All book.

 

[Mr. Adventure]

The 70s were an interesting time in movies and TV, you see a lot more slow and leisurely presented productions than any era before and after it. I think for sci-fi it started with 2001 and ended with Star Wars. Regardless of quality, movies like Silent Running, Zardoz, Logan's Run, Invasion of the Body Snatchers and so on just have a different pace and style than current stuff. Even the better known stuff from the end of the decade like Alien, ST:TMP, and The Black Hole reflect this more drawn out lingering approach. Compare Beneath the Planet of the Apes to the original. A lot of 70s stuff is a little "cold".

My point (which itself is getting dragged out...) is that The Starlost even done well may belong to another time and be a hard sell trying to hook modern audiences.

 

[Professor Zoom]

I think it's time to remake Zardoz.



And I'm not entirely kidding.

 

[Christopher]

My point (which itself is getting dragged out...) is that The Starlost even done well may belong to another time and be a hard sell trying to hook modern audiences.

Well, remaking a concept doesn't require doing it with the same tone or style. For instance, The Fugitive was a dramatic series about Richard Kimble helping the people he came across in his travels, but the Harrison Ford movie and the Tim Daly TV remake were both fast-paced action thrillers. The Beauty and the Beast remake was less of a fairy-tale romance and more of a conspiracy thriller, while the new Nancy Drew is (I gather) a dark, racy, supernatural melodrama in contrast to the kid-friendly mystery-solving show I watched back in the '70s. And Netflix's Lost in Space is basically a smarter, better-made version of what the '60s show started out to be in its first few episodes, rather than the goofy, campy nonsense it ended up becoming.

 

[Timewalker]

I really liked The Starlost. There wasn’t much Sci fi on tv in the late ‘70s so it was much appreciated. You just kinda had to use your imagination with the effects, much like Dr Who of the same era. Wouldn’t mind seeing a streaming service take a crack at it.

I enjoyed the show enough that I've seen most of the episodes at least twice. It's out on DVD.

The 70s were an interesting time in movies and TV, you see a lot more slow and leisurely presented productions than any era before and after it. I think for sci-fi it started with 2001 and ended with Star Wars. Regardless of quality, movies like Silent Running, Zardoz, Logan's Run, Invasion of the Body Snatchers and so on just have a different pace and style than current stuff. Even the better known stuff from the end of the decade like Alien, ST:TMP, and The Black Hole reflect this more drawn out lingering approach. Compare Beneath the Planet of the Apes to the original. A lot of 70s stuff is a little "cold".

Remember that the '70s was during the Cold War. A lot of science fiction had elements of dystopia in it even if that wasn't the main focus.

If you want another perspective on the frustrations of making this series, look up what Ben Bova has to say about it (he took over as science consultant). He was so pissed off that he wrote a novel called "The Starcrossed" and it's one long not-even-slightly-veiled snark and rant about his experiences and Ellison's experiences with The Starlost.

There's a proper tie-in novel written by Ellison and Edward Bryant, called Phoenix Without Ashes. It's a pretty good read, and was intended to be a series of novels (but as far as I've been able to determine, this was the only one published).

I met Edward Bryant at a Calgary SF convention in July of 1993 (just took a look at the message he wrote when he autographed the book: "For_____, With all the finest greetings from deep space to Red Deer... With all the best from 50% of (arrow pointing up at both authors' names)" and the date.

Bryant was a very interesting person to chat with, and he explained some of the reasons why Bova was so angry about his experiences with the TV series (I'd mentioned my displeasure at reading The Starcrossed). We had an amicable conversation about this and a couple of other things (Edward Bryant likes cats, so that's one way to win over a fan, besides writing a good story! ).


As for whether this series could be brought back... the concept would have to be updated quite a bit, and the characters would have to be very carefully developed. One of the positives of this series is that Devon, Garth, and Rachel are not scientists. They are three young adults from an Amish-type of society who are not only faced with learning advanced science, but science, period. They come from such an insular sort of society (even by our RL standards) that it's a bit of a culture shock to learn that there are more biospheres, some with very different cultural norms.

 

[DrCorby]

There's a proper tie-in novel written by Ellison and Edward Bryant, called Phoenix Without Ashes. It's a pretty good read, and was intended to be a series of novels (but as far as I've been able to determine, this was the only one published).

I read and enjoyed this novel back in the day. But to be honest, what I most remember about the book was the long (even by Harlan's standards) introduction, ranting with much eloquent vitriol about being involved in the TV production of the series. Classic Ellison. It made me never want to see an episode.

Ellison also did a graphic novel (actually, a collection of the 4-issue IDW series) that retold the beginning of the story again, but unfortunately, there was no second volume. An intriguing concept, pretty good art -- this would have been a worthwhile book to follow. Don't know what befell this project...

 

[Timewalker]

It made me never want to see an episode.

Oh, come on! There are TWO episodes in which Walter Koenig guest-starred, as an alien named Oro, and he wore the dumbest-looking gold lame jumpsuit...

You don't want to see that?

 

[bryce]

Just follow Ellison's original ideas, before his bosses trashed it...

 

[Skipper]

From another thread, some interesting information:

from Somehow, I Don’t Think We’re In Kansas, Toto, an essay by Ellison about his experience on Starlost (at this point he had already left the production):

At one point, when the roof started falling in on them, they called Gene Roddenberry, the successful creator of Star Trek, and they offered him fifty percent of the show if he’d come up and produce the show out of trouble for them.
Gene laughed at them and said what did he need fifty percent of a loser for, he had a hundred percent of two winners of his own. They said they could understand that, but did he have someone else in mind whom he could recommend as producer?
Gene said, sure he did.
They made the mistake of asking him who.
He said, “Harlan Ellison. If you hadn’t fucked him over so badly, he could have done a good job for you.”
Then he hung up on them

A piece by Norman Klenman, who was called in to work on The Starlost because the production team were unable to deal with Ellison
From: http://www.snowcrest.net/fox/star2.html

I will tell now the true story behind the pilot for this series. Harlan Ellison even in those days had a reputation as a fine scifi writer, mostly stories, though he was now working in TV. My friend Bill Davidson, a former collaborator on two feature films with me in Canada, was made producer of the series and found Ellison was already involved by Baton (CFTO Toronto) and NBC-20th Fox, as writer of the "bible" or story idea, and the key opening episode. Davidson and the station had, however, enormous problems with Ellison. I think he suffered from inflated ego. A talent, but an ego -- I suppose good creative people have egos by their very nature. They could not get anywhere with him. Canada had few professional TV drama writers, none to my knowledge still living there and experienced in network hour long dramas. Ellison got in touch with the top scifi writers, but nothing shootable emerged after weeks, maybe months. Ellison was either fired or quit. I was working in Hollwyood writing drama for Universal, 20th, etc., but was also a Canadian, and therefore could be "imported" without disturbing the Canadian content rules for that period re shooting in Canada (rules I never understood). I was invited, in fact, pursued by Arthur Weinthall, head of production for CTV network, to please come and be story editor. I did not wish to go back to Toronto (in hot, humid summers) but Bill was an old friend. First thing when I was hired I phoned Ellison whom I had never met. I spoke to him candidly bvy phone as a fellow writer and member of the Writers Guild West, but had never had met him. I said plainly, Harlan, I'm not a science fiction writer and know nothing about it, but I've written for CBC-TV, BBC-TV, and here in network TV, so hope I can handle it. He was explosive and acidic, at me, at Davidson, at CTV and hung up on me.

Well, back in Toronto I read for the first time the bible, and could barely stay awake reading it. Worse, I read his draft of the opening episode and nearly got on a plane back to LA. It was that bad in my eyes: boring, turgic, biblical, heavy, and dull. What more can I say? And this from a man of his reputation. Still, it takes all kinds. I rewrote the script that they shot, and subsequently hired the writers, chose the themes, wrote four original, did massive rewriting on 8 more but took only minimal credits as some of these were done by fine WGA writers from whom I did n ot wish to steal credits. I did minimal editing and rewriting on the last four. The series ended and I returned to LA. Bill was a fine producer, and all the directors were talented. The technical innovations and the contribution by Ben Bova, fine man though was, and talented, fell flat. CFTO without help or experience had to manufacture from the ground up the early technial materials essential to the space aspects of the show. The cast were fine, and Bill a pleasure as always to work for.

Some time later I learned Ellison trashed Bill and me in a US sleazemag. He probably got money for it. Later, he behaved in an odd way at a WGA film club screening and it hit the pages of the WGA magazine. I wrote a brief, funny (I thought) tongue in cheek response, because the article carried word that Harlan had actually apologised for his behaviour at the club. I thought that deserved notice, and a welcome retreat from the ego inflation for which he was famous. The article didn't appear. Instead his buddy, the editor of the journal, forwarded my light hearted note to Ellison. I was in Vancouver at the time opening my new TV station there. The note could only be described as poison pen. It was nasty. Insulting, in fact. I thought about it, and then, realizing that life is short, I returned the letter to him with a note saying that, look, this isn't serious, don't take it that way, if I pass on do you want this awful letter you wrote to be found and shown to who knows how many decent folk? Here it is, destroy it. He (if you can believe this) actually mailed it back to me. He was still nasty, but commended my graciousness. That, I hoped, is where the matter would end. But I understand that even years later he was still smoldering inside about his Starlost "treatment". Now the payoff: He had spoke constantly around the WGA about this "treatment". He submitted his script of Episode one of the Starlost for judgment in the union awards, and won first prize for hour drama. Did he submit his awful (in my view) draft, or the one I rewrote??? I shall never know. I really don't care, either. The world is full of wonderful things without bad feelings

 

[F. King Daniel]

Just follow Ellison's original ideas, before his bosses trashed it...

No thread on The Starlost is complete without mention of Ben Bova's The Starcrossed, parodying the behind-the-scenes turmoil on the show.

 

[Timewalker]

No thread on The Starlost is complete without mention of Ben Bova's The Starcrossed, parodying the behind-the-scenes turmoil on the show.

That's why I already mentioned it upthread.

 

[Professor Zoom]

From another thread, some interesting information:

from Somehow, I Don’t Think We’re In Kansas, Toto, an essay by Ellison about his experience on Starlost (at this point he had already left the production):


A piece by Norman Klenman, who was called in to work on The Starlost because the production team were unable to deal with Ellison
From: http://www.snowcrest.net/fox/star2.html

Ellison being an asshole? Huh. I am shocked, SHOCKED.

TV is a collaborative field. Some people can collaborate, others can't.

 

[Skipper]

TV is a collaborative field. Some people can collaborate, others can't.

And Ellison was totally SHOCKED by this concept. Every. Single. Time.

 

[Professor Zoom]

And Ellison was totally SHOCKED by this concept. Every. Single. Time.

Yeah, I never understood why that guy ever wanted to be involved in Hollywood--except for the paycheck.

 

[DrCorby]

Oh, come on! There are TWO episodes in which Walter Koenig guest-starred, as an alien named Oro, and he wore the dumbest-looking gold lame jumpsuit...

You don't want to see that?

I lived through the 1970s, watching some really bad SF shows on TV. This sounded like one thing more that I really didn't need to see. Maybe to watch Walter Koenig be embarrassed. Or maybe if it was given the MST3K treatment...

Now, don't get me wrong. I know that Harlan had an ego the size of all outdoors, and went out of his way to be nasty to anyone he thought had wronged him. Whether he had turned in a series bible and script that were actually filmable, I don't know. Regardless, the almost-universal consensus is that Starlost is pretty terrible. I already have plenty of bad stuff that I like anyway that I can watch.

If I came across it while channel surfing, I'd probably stop and watch some of it. Heck, I even do that for David Lynch's Dune, and I really, really hate that movie. So you never know...

 

[Asbo Zaprudder]

There are lots of generation ship stories by other SF authors that could be tackled before re-adapting this one. One example would be "Non-Stop" by Brian Aldiss.

 

[Professor Zoom]

I lived through the 1970s, watching some really bad SF shows on TV. This sounded like one thing more that I really didn't need to see. Maybe to watch Walter Koenig be embarrassed. Or maybe if it was given the MST3K treatment...

Now, don't get me wrong. I know that Harlan had an ego the size of all outdoors, and went out of his way to be nasty to anyone he thought had wronged him. Whether he had turned in a series bible and script that were actually filmable, I don't know. Regardless, the almost-universal consensus is that Starlost is pretty terrible. I already have plenty of bad stuff that I like anyway that I can watch.

If I came across it while channel surfing, I'd probably stop and watch some of it. Heck, I even do that for David Lynch's Dune, and I really, really hate that movie. So you never know...

I just tried to watch a couple of episode of Starlost on Youtube... they are TERRRRRRRIIIIIBBBBBLE.
I feel bad for the actors being in them. At least the writers never show their faces.

 

[Forbin]

I just tried to watch a couple of episode of Starlost on Youtube... they are TERRRRRRRIIIIIBBBBBLE.
I feel bad for the actors being in them. At least the writers never show their faces.

I made it thru the whole DVD set, but nostalgia played a factor.

 

[Professor Zoom]

I made it thru the whole DVD set, but nostalgia played a factor.

There must've been some hard drugs involved, because I don't know how you did that, and that's speaking as someone who has watched all of the available Classic Doctor Who.