I agree. I hated S31 in DS9 and ENT. But I suspect they're gonna use them anyway.Section 31 =
Could the "new" villain be....????
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Personally, I doubt J.J. & Co. would mine that far into the lore. That's not an indictment of their writing abilities or their Trek fandom, mind you; it's just that Section 31 is, relatively speaking of course, some pretty obscure stuff. It feels much more likely to me that they'll rework more classic or commonly known elements - Romulans have been done, Klingons are the logical progression, Khan - before getting into any of the "deep cuts", most of which would probably be left for comics or the possible new TV series.
That said, I'd rather see a Trek film with such an ominous subtitle as "Into Darkness" deal with heavier subject matter. That's not to say that a Klingon or Khan story done properly couldn't accomplish that, but Section 31 would be right up there with them. As would anything Cardassian, but again, that might be drifting too far away from the core Big Bads.
But hey, if we're shooting about the heavy stuff, obscurity being no obstacle, and presumably we've got a human antagonist this time... Colonel Green? Terra Prime?
That said, I'd rather see a Trek film with such an ominous subtitle as "Into Darkness" deal with heavier subject matter. That's not to say that a Klingon or Khan story done properly couldn't accomplish that, but Section 31 would be right up there with them. As would anything Cardassian, but again, that might be drifting too far away from the core Big Bads.
But hey, if we're shooting about the heavy stuff, obscurity being no obstacle, and presumably we've got a human antagonist this time... Colonel Green? Terra Prime?
If the character is supposed to be 'Iconic'............
then how many choices do we have?
Mitchell is
Garth sort of is, but they would never take a character from so shoddy/campy an episode
Khan is
He can't be Klingon unlless he's been altered--that's lame
Another Romulan -- also lame
Vulcan--it is possible if they left off the ears for the outdoor shooting that got caught on film. Add the ears later for those shots using CGI?
Who else is Iconic?
TOS wasn't like a comic book with one villain after another and many to choose from.
then how many choices do we have?
Mitchell is
Garth sort of is, but they would never take a character from so shoddy/campy an episode
Khan is
He can't be Klingon unlless he's been altered--that's lame
Another Romulan -- also lame
Vulcan--it is possible if they left off the ears for the outdoor shooting that got caught on film. Add the ears later for those shots using CGI?
Who else is Iconic?
TOS wasn't like a comic book with one villain after another and many to choose from.
Section 31 =
I don't dislike Section 31 that much LOL, but the other guy is right, it's very obscure.
While I think it is unlikely that Section 31 is in the movie, it's not outside the realm of possibility. Just because it isn't known outside of fan circles is no reason for them to avoid it. If they like the idea they would use it and introduce it to the audience just like any new elements they came up with.
My money is still on Mitchell. If so, the comic book use is a red herring.
My money is still on Mitchell. If so, the comic book use is a red herring.
It would be nice if someone up-on-high could qualify the "iconic" statement for us a little. If that means "iconic to Star Trek fans", then the villain could be just about anyone that resonates with us strongly enough. Gary Mitchell, Colonel Green, the original Klingon trio, Nomad, drunken shirtless Sulu, whatever.
But since "iconic" in this case almost certainly means "synonymous with Star Trek" to the point where the same non-traditional moviegoers who made Trek XI a blockbuster have to stand some chance of recognizing the name or face... we can probably safely assume it'll be a Klingon, another Romulan, Khan, or an angry whale.
But since "iconic" in this case almost certainly means "synonymous with Star Trek" to the point where the same non-traditional moviegoers who made Trek XI a blockbuster have to stand some chance of recognizing the name or face... we can probably safely assume it'll be a Klingon, another Romulan, Khan, or an angry whale.
or Q.
JudgeDredd
Lieutenant Junior Grade
I re-watched "Space Seed" the other night and I was reminded that Khan was only seconds from dying due to a failing cryo-chamber.
A really cool twist on the original story and a bit of a middle finger to the fans who think they know what's going to happen would be to have Khan either die in this new universe or not be awakened at all. Another Augment (Joachim, perhaps?) could be awakened instead and turn out to be worse than Khan ever was.
That, I think, would make for a cool story. A brand new character who is really not a brand new character, made a central villain and perhaps a new Trek icon.
A really cool twist on the original story and a bit of a middle finger to the fans who think they know what's going to happen would be to have Khan either die in this new universe or not be awakened at all. Another Augment (Joachim, perhaps?) could be awakened instead and turn out to be worse than Khan ever was.
That, I think, would make for a cool story. A brand new character who is really not a brand new character, made a central villain and perhaps a new Trek icon.
^ Holy crap, that might be the best idea I've heard so far. If we do end up with an Augment story at all, I can't think of any better way to spin it than that.
Hmm, I wonder: would a JJverse film explicitly refer to them as Augments? That alone would be kind of cool. A very minor nod, but cool.
Hmm, I wonder: would a JJverse film explicitly refer to them as Augments? That alone would be kind of cool. A very minor nod, but cool.
JudgeDredd
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Thanks. I think it would be a great idea too, and I wonder if that's what happened with Del Toro not being selected and then Cumberbatch getting the job. Maybe the original intent was Khan, but as they considered it and Del Toro didn't work out, they decided to leave Khan on ice or kill him off and go with another of Khan's followers. Would be a great twist.
I don't know about whether or not they'll use the Augment reference, but I think it would be a great reference, esp. since those were some of Enterprise's finest hours.
You may be on to something. This sounds like something the current team would come up with. Hmmm
I have a wild guess, what if it was that creature from the Next Generation Episode "The Skin of Evil" you know the one that killed Tasha Yar? It has been around for a long time, so it is probably still on that planet in the 23rd century, its goal is to get off that planet and get revenge against its masters for leaving it behind, and it looks like a dark oil slick. Now what if a change in the timeline caused it to be discovered a bit earlier and it gets off its planet. I mean the name of the film is Star Trek: Darkness, maybe this is the "darkness" to which the movie title refers.
I think they will have the good sense to use characters from 'good' episodes.
Sometime before the movie opens the villain's name will get out.
The media and casual fans upon finding the name would look at that episode and go "oh god that's a terrible episode!"
That's why they'll never use Garth in a movie. Cool concept--the Starfleet's greatest captain gone insane and on a violent rampage.
And then people look at 'Whom Gods Destroy' with all the overacting and nonsense and ridicule it. Not good publicity.
Sometime before the movie opens the villain's name will get out.
The media and casual fans upon finding the name would look at that episode and go "oh god that's a terrible episode!"
That's why they'll never use Garth in a movie. Cool concept--the Starfleet's greatest captain gone insane and on a violent rampage.
And then people look at 'Whom Gods Destroy' with all the overacting and nonsense and ridicule it. Not good publicity.
Also, Joachim and Khan were pretty close. Killing Khan automatically gives Joachim motivation to go on a tear against Kirk and company, even if the death is accidental upon awakening or something that happened in cryostasis long before Enterprise shows up. He always seemed relatively level-headed in Wrath of Khan, so this kind of personal tragedy would be necessary to send him over the edge.
Cumberbatch has the right look for this character, too.
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