Could the Baul be Ferengi?

[Unimatrix Q]

After finally watching the Short Treks, now that they are on Netflix, i have the growing suspicion that the Ba'ul, who take Kelpians from Kaminar to most likely kill them, might be Ferengi.

Georgiou mentioned that the Ba'ul are pirates.

The setup on Kaminar reminds me a lot on how the Ferengi exploited the population on the Pre-Warp-Planet during "False Profits" on Voyager.

Remember the talk about the Ferengi eating their business partners during "Encounter at Farpoint". The writers of Discovery apparently like bringing up references to obscure canon issues. The dialogue between Picard and Groppler Zorn might be another one:

"ZORN: Captain, the Ferengi would be very interested in a base like this.

PICARD: Fine. I hope they find you as tasty as they did their past associates. "

The situation on Kaminar might be the origin of the rumors about the Ferengi being cannibals during early TNG.

And there is the fact that Saru learnt to communicate with Starfleet with the help of Ba'ul technology. I guess the technology of intergalactic traders like the Ferengi, who have to understand and communicate with many different species might be perfect for such a thing.

Another thing is that the place where the Ba'ul beam up Kelpians looks actually like something Ferengi might have built.

In Season 1 there was a reference to the kelpian homeworld as Kelpia.

When the Short Treks arrived, the writers changed the planet name to Kaminar.

What's the name of the Ferengi homeworld? Ferenginar, of course. As we all know.

Ferenginar
Kaminar

Maybe (i)nar is a ferengi term for planet or place.

My conclusion: The Federation during the 23rd century actually knew of the Ferengi, but didn't knew them by that name. The Ba'ul are Ferengi who exploit the Kelpians to make profit by selling their meat.

Edit: Inserted a poll and edited my post with additional information to make it more informative for readers who haven't read the entire thread.

Edit 2:

https://www.trektoday.com/content/2019/01/saru-in-discoverys-season-two-a-return/

" "Because I’m leaving a pre-warp society secretly, and joining a warp society. And so now what? I can’t go back with the knowledge that I have. That would ruin their own natural growth, right? So how do I get back to Kaminar, then. This is going to be a conflict and – yes, there’s a lot at stake here, for Saru. And I learn things this year about myself, and some things come up that challenge my perception of what it is to be a Kelpien, what I thought I knew about being a Kelpien. There’s so much, my world’s a little bit rocked. And going back to Kaminar: can I share what I know? Wow, right? Mystery!" "

Hmm...

And another one...

https://www.trektoday.com/content/2019/01/mackinnon-familiar-aliens-in-season-two-of-discovery/

If new information that might hint at the Ferengi is released, i keep adding the links in this post until we know if my theory is right or wrong.

 

[Tosk]

...I'd be pretty surprised.

 

[Agony_Boothb]

I doubt it. I'm pretty sure we get a glimpse of the Ba'ul in the trailer that dropped after 'Brother' aired. There is a scene of a Kelpian restrained against a wall whilst some sort of amorphous alien appears before them. We get a glimpse of this creatures hand as well earlier in the trailer.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

I doubt it. I'm pretty sure we get a glimpse of the Ba'ul in the trailer that dropped after 'Brother' aired. There is a scene of a Kelpian restrained against a wall whilst some sort of amorphous alien appears before them. We get a glimpse of this creatures hand as well earlier in the trailer.

You could be right. But would they reveal the Baul in a trailer? Maybe the identity of the Baul is one of the big surprises of this season and the alien in the trailer isn't a Baul but just a client of them.

 

[Locutus of Bored]

I don't think this is likely to end up being the case, but I do appreciate out of the box thinking, so good work.

 

[Christopher]

3. Remember the talk about the Ferengi eating their business partners during "Encounter at Farpoint".

Which doesn't fit anything we've learned about the Ferengi since then, so it makes no sense to assume it was actually true. Remember, in "Farpoint," the Federation had never actually met the Ferengi before. All they had was hearsay. When the Ferengi showed up in person in "The Last Outpost," their DaiMon projected a huge image of himself on the viewer to make himself seem big and scary and threatening... and then when the Ferengi beamed down to the planet, we saw they were small and comical. Implicitly, they put on a show of being scarier than they were in order to intimidate other races, not unlike Balok in "The Corbomite Maneuver." The rumors of eating people were presumably part of that.

 

[The Wormhole]

The problem is is that it really isn't clear how the Ferengi would profit from this. Even if they were to enslave a primitive alien race, why go to the trouble of hiding their identity.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Which doesn't fit anything we've learned about the Ferengi since then, so it makes no sense to assume it was actually true. Remember, in "Farpoint," the Federation had never actually met the Ferengi before. All they had was hearsay. When the Ferengi showed up in person in "The Last Outpost," their DaiMon projected a huge image of himself on the viewer to make himself seem big and scary and threatening... and then when the Ferengi beamed down to the planet, we saw they were small and comical. Implicitly, they put on a show of being scarier than they were in order to intimidate other races, not unlike Balok in "The Corbomite Maneuver." The rumors of eating people were presumably part of that.

Yes, it doesn't make sense with what we have learnt about them later, especially in DS9.

That's why i think it might be a good explanation for this rumors.

Maybe the writers and producers wanted to retroactively explain where they originated from.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

The problem is is that it really isn't clear how the Ferengi would profit from this. Even if they were to enslave a primitive alien race, why go to the trouble of hiding their identity.

Maybe it's just the name for this band of pirates. Or the Ferengi have various languages and subcultures instead of being a monoculture.

 

[Christopher]

Yes, it doesn't make sense with what we have learnt about them later, especially in DS9.

That's why i think it might be a good explanation for this rumors.

That's a contradictory statement. The reason we call it a rumor is because it wasn't actually true. Most rumors are nonsense. And the Ferengi are well-known liars, so why wouldn't they spread a completely false rumor about eating people in order to make themselves seem more intimidating?

Maybe the writers and producers wanted to retroactively explain where they originated from.

Why would they want to, even if they remembered such a throwaway line in the first place? The Ferengi have been too well-established by now as a fundamentally benign race, at worst a humorous nuisance, for it to make any kind of sense to suddenly retcon them into actual sophontophages merely for the sake of a tiny bit of continuity porn that only the most obsessive fans would even remember or care about. (Heck, the only line there actually was about it was Picard saying to Groppler Zorn "I hope they find you as tasty as they did their past associates." That's it. It's not even overt, just an implication. He could've been speaking metaphorically for all we know.)

Also, you mention piracy as a "clue," but there are other races in Trek that are more closely associated with piracy than the Ferengi, e.g. the Orions and the Nausicaans. We've only seen a couple of acts of Ferengi piracy, in "Acquisition" and "Rascals." They're far better known as disreputable traders and businessmen. They're hardly the best fit here.

Even aside from the fact that small-universe syndrome makes no sense. The Trek galaxy is huge and full of life. For any given category, there are bound to be countless totally unrelated examples.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

That's a contradictory statement. The reason we call it a rumor is because it wasn't actually true. Most rumors are nonsense. And the Ferengi are well-known liars, so why wouldn't they spread a completely false rumor about eating people in order to make themselves seem more intimidating?




Why would they want to, even if they remembered such a throwaway line in the first place? The Ferengi have been too well-established by now as a fundamentally benign race, at worst a humorous nuisance, for it to make any kind of sense to suddenly retcon them into actual sophontophages merely for the sake of a tiny bit of continuity porn that only the most obsessive fans would even remember or care about. (Heck, the only line there actually was about it was Picard saying to Groppler Zorn "I hope they find you as tasty as they did their past associates." That's it. It's not even overt, just an implication. He could've been speaking metaphorically for all we know.)

Also, you mention piracy as a "clue," but there are other races in Trek that are more closely associated with piracy than the Ferengi, e.g. the Orions and the Nausicaans. We've only seen a couple of acts of Ferengi piracy, in "Acquisition" and "Rascals." They're far better known as disreputable traders and businessmen. They're hardly the best fit here.

Even aside from the fact that small-universe syndrome makes no sense. The Trek galaxy is huge and full of life. For any given category, there are bound to be countless totally unrelated examples.

One thing which always striked me as odd, especially after Enterprise, was how established the Ferengi were in the Alpha Quadrant during the 24th century.

Even on Risa, a Federation planet, you apparently could find them at ease just a bit more than two years after the Enterprise-D encountered them first. And Quark had his bar on Terok Nor for some time at this point.

How could it be that a species that Archer encountered first in the 22nd century had absolutely no contact with the Federation in the 23rd century?

I wouldn't call a Ferengi reveal in Discovery a case of "Small Universe syndrome" but logical and reasonable, especially in light of Enterprise, later TNG and DS9.

And do you really think, some Ferengi wouldn't try to sell Kelpian meat if the profit would be big enough?

Edit: And for most rumors being false: The important detail would be that most Ferengi aren't like that. It would be just a small unscrupolously few that would start the rumors of the Ferengi being cannibals.

 

[XCV330]

Ferengis seem to prefer insects. I don't think they are entirely insectivore as I recall reading somewhere that they also eat fungus. Apart from a stray comment by Picard, which might be misinterpreted, or as other Picard statements, simply wrong. Ferengi are basically wingless bats.

Ferengi also don't have slaves, though that could be a matter of degree. Quark was pretty adamant about that.

I can't see them being the Baul.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Ferengis seem to prefer insects. I don't think they are entirely insectivore as I recall reading somewhere that they also eat fungus. Apart from a stray comment by Picard, which might be misinterpreted, or as other Picard statements, simply wrong. Ferengi are basically wingless bats.

Ferengi also don't have slaves, though that could be a matter of degree. Quark was pretty adamant about that.

I can't see them being the Baul.

I never meant that Ferengi would be eating Kelpians, just that some of them could have tried to exploit them as cattle for some clients.

It's interesting that in the Mirror Universe, Kelpians are a well known delicacy. Maybe Ba'ul / Ferengi are responsible for that fact.

 

[DEWLine]

Assumes that the Terran Empire allowed the Ferengi to live.

 

[Tuskin38]

Assumes that the Terran Empire allowed the Ferengi to live.

Well they still existed in the 24th century.

 

[Nerys Myk]

The problem is is that it really isn't clear how the Ferengi would profit from this. Even if they were to enslave a primitive alien race, why go to the trouble of hiding their identity.

You've obviously haven't read the menu at Quarks.

 

[Vger23]

I'm going to guess not.

I'm thinking that 24th Century Trek references are going to be extraordinarily scarce in this show. You'll see some ENT (and have already) and obviously TOS references...but the "Age of Okudagrams" references will probably be held off for the Picard series.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

I'm going to guess not.

I'm thinking that 24th Century Trek references are going to be extraordinarily scarce in this show. You'll see some ENT (and have already) and obviously TOS references...but the "Age of Okudagrams" references will probably be held off for the Picard series.

There were actually references to TNG:

Look at two dialogues, one from "Heart of Glory" and the other from the pilot of Discovery:

"Worf: Yet in all you say, where are the words duty, honor, loyalty. Without which a warrior is nothing."

"T'Kuvma: My presence. My voyage. My time. No one speaks of my duty or my honor."

and ironically, klingon cannibalism may also have come to the forefront because the writers gave some attention to "Heart of Glory"

"KORRIS: Brother, I knew you would come. (Worf climbs the ladder) Now I, we have a chance. I could not do it alone, but I would rather die here, than let the traitors of Kling pick the meat from my bones. With you it will work."

LOL If the Ba'ul really are Ferengi, it seems like the writers are cannibalizing TNG

 

[DaveyNY]

IF we're thinking about a preexisting Trek race being the culprits, then the more likely candidates would be the Romulans.

But that's a really big reach, as far as I'm concerned.
(and not very likely)

 

[Unimatrix Q]

IF we're thinking about a preexisting Trek race being the culprits, then the more likely candidates would be the Romulans.

But that's a really big reach, as far as I'm concerned.
(and not very likely)

Why the Romulans? Because of the soup in "Unification"?