Kirk finds out he has a kid already whom he gets to know while Spock and Nyota (a relationship not developed in the prime universe) contemplate having one.
Oof don't make me watch them again to count them. Admittedly, Scotty is bound to give him a pass because he's in no position to throw stones.
In keeping with tradition, I am going to say 47.
One thing I didn't buy in (ST: Darkness?) was Kirk's questioning of his life and command. I get that they were making a lame ass redux of ST-2. But in ST: Khan, Kirk was at a very different point in his life, he was 50 and wrestling with the idea that his best days were behind him and he had to accept the realities of aging...
He was questioning his command in Beyond because he has outlived his dad who was lauded as a hero, and Kirk lives in his shadow of this heroic man.
If that's lame ass then Star Trek The Motion Picture is lame ass because it's just a redux of the Changeling.
The most praise he gets is during the promotion scene. After that, especially in Into Darkness, he is questioned by pretty much everyone. Pike dresses him down, Scotty steps away, Spock challenges him, and Kirk feels more isolated.
He saves Earth and is a hero. Then it all starts falling apart until Kirk apologies for getting everyone killed, and still has to sacrifice himself.
Are you thinking of BEY, where Kirk's questioning his life because he's now the same age his father was when he died and because the long mission they've been on has started to feel tedious to him?
ETA: Ninjaed!
for sure, the whole movie was a lame ass recreation of ST: Khan , I don't they tried to hide that...it was destined to fail in that regard since you can only catch lightning in a bottle once.
btw: i might be mixing up the movies because the reboots; I was never really enamored with, I saw them all probably because of obligation only, but none of them stuck.
I very well may be, as i stated in another post.
Except, that ignores Kirk's whole arc. So, lake ass reproduction in structure but not content.
lake ass...sounds like a chronic condition!! (sorry couldn't resist!)
It's like beach bum but at a lake.
Yes, perhaps praise isn't the right word. It's more like a version of white privilege, where people shake their heads at his behaviour but then adopt his shoddy high school grade plans like they are pure genius and reward him accordingly. Let's be honest, Spock saves the day, not Kirk. If Spock hadn't stopped Kirk from chasing Nero, the Enterprise and Earth would have been destroyed. If Spock Prime hadn't told Kirk what was going on and helped Scotty with long distance transportation, Kirk would never have got back the ship. Spock would have limped to the fleet, who could have warped to Earth at high warp. Given that Nero was apparently travelling to Earth at less than warp 4 (never stated why), who can say if they could have got there before the planet was destroyed. Then while Kirk is saving his surrogate daddy without the aid of a security team, Spock, also without a security team, secures the red matter and saves the day. I'm really not sure why Kirk was promoted over Spock beyond classic TOS racism.
You and I watched different films or view it differently.
Kirk wants to go after Nero but strategizes with all his crew, resulting in a plan based upon knowledge from future Spock and collaborative with his crew.
He shows ingenuity and leadership, and accomplishes the task of saving Pike.
Because that isn't Spock's ambition?
Very little of the movie can be described that way. Certainly the reactor sequence, but what else?
Who is the antagonist?
I think it's absolutely true that Spock never really wanted a permanent command, although he was only a lieutenant at this age in TOS, so he is VERY young for a full commander and first officer. Even Number One was only a lieutenant and she was likely a few years older than Spock, so it seems like this Spock is way more ambitious.
I agree Kirk shows ingenuity and leadership in the way he cheats the Kobayashi Maru and cheats his way into command. I question whether those behavioural traits imply he's a good captain - a good security officer, perhaps. Plus, is there any ingenuity in the cadets' plan?
- Nero has a massive head start and a ship that could travel from Rura Penthe to Vulcan in a day (probably about Warp 20 on the TOS scale). The Enterprise limped at warp 3 in the opposite direction for a day and then back to Earth at warp 4. It's unclear why everyone assumes they're going to arrive before Nero. If he get's there 5 minutes before them, their plan fails.
- Distance Earth–Vulcan: Common fan‑accepted value is ~16 light‑years.
Warp 4 speed (TOS‑style scale): Roughly 102× the speed of light.
Time = distance ÷ speed Time≈16 ly102c≈0.157 years≈57 days
I asked Co-pilot to work out the numbers so they might be way out but you catch my drift.
- Nero assumes Pike can give him the password ("Guest") to Earth's defences. Did anyone warn Earth that Nero was coming at any point? Did anyone tell Earth that Pike has been captured and maybe change the password ("Guest01")? Did Spock ask Scotty to warn Earth before flying off? Did Kirk ask Scotty to warn Earth?
- Kirk's plan is to sneak up on Nero and beam aboard. Why does he assume that a vessel entering enemy territory won't have shields raised to deal with Earth's defences or, being advanced ship from the future, be shielded against unauthorised incoming transports? Either of these possibilities will cause his plan to fail. Nero likely has to lower shields to deploy the drill, giving a likely narrow window to try to beam aboard in the few seconds while the drill is lowered, allowing Nero plenty of time to start destroying Earth while Kirk wanders around looking for daddy, erm daddy Pike, erm just Pike.
- Despite knowing that Nero will be able to detect an unauthorised incoming transport, Kirk beams over without any support and sends Spock off without any support. Spock might stand a chance if the Romulans can't easily differentiate a Vulcan life sign but Kirk will stand out. Half-dead Pike has to save Kirk from getting shot. They also can't beam back while the drill is active, so their escape plan looks pretty ill thought out, a bit all or nothing, considering a planet is at stake. Luke Skywalker had a plan for getting in but not a plan for getting out but in Luke's defence, he was a farm hand.
I do think snippets of dialogue could have dealt with these points such as confirming scans of the Narada limping away from Vulcan, confirming damage to the comms, beaming Kirk and a security escort to Delta Vega to use their comms, trying to disguise the transport with a distraction. Dammit, I just realised that I wanted this to be Mission Impossible in space.
Ok, I also accept that other movies also show Kirk making terrible decisions and winning by the seat of his pants. Not raising shields when faced with the Reliant... why not? Kirk's rescue attempt in STV is also very sloppy. Stun the whole compound from orbit. Only way to be sure.
I think if the only way you can get your plots to work is if you ignore the capabilities of your fictional technology, either don't make the tech so good, or think harder for ways to get around it. Why didn't they beam everyone from the compound up in STV? Because there was a transporter jamming field in place. A nice simple explanation that leads to some action. But, wait, why doesn't every ship employ a transporter jamming field? They were manually installing them in Picard season 3. Maybe they don't match the wallpaper?
Dragging this back on track, I think I could have much enjoyed story set on the planet until the final act, exploring the ambassadors' stories, showing the crew being brainwashed a few at a time, showing Kirk trying to puzzle out Sybok's motives, with it ultimately turning out to be an interstellar consciousness communicating with him, seeking enough followers to manifest a gestalt brain. A very different movie perhaps although rock monsters and God could still manifest in Paradise City.
I'm rambling worse than usual. I'm off to bed.
Either that or Axl and Slash.
Yes. It's why his promotion jumps the shark for me. His skills set is blatantly lacking. Promote him to Lt-commander if you must and put him in charge of a small ship where he can learn.
It's interesting watching something like Corbomite Manoeuvre or Balance of Terror and seeing how hard Kirk works to project his aura of command, despite his doubts after years more experience.
I think Kirk works better for me in Beyond than in Star Trek V & VI because they allow elements of his self-doubt to inform his character and decisions.
Delinquent Kirk is so obviously overcompensating for any self doubt, you can't help but wonder how terribly he'd perform in a TOS episode. The SNW episode that showed that Pike would have screwed it up was interesting too.
Sure but Pike's bias was in play. I agree that moving from lieutenant to lieutenant commavder would have been more reasonable but I don't see the shark jumping.
Yes, which is why I find Kirk's growth in the Kelvin films so intensely enjoyable.
Similar threads
- Poll
