Spoilers Could Dahj and Soji be philosophical zombies?

[Unimatrix Q]

I think this deserves it's own thread.

Would explain why Deanna couldn't feel Soji's emotions, while she could feel Data's and Lal's.

Maybe that's also the reason why the Zhat Vash want to have her terminated...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie

 

[ITDUDE]

Wooosh to General in 3...2...1...

 

[eschaton]

I think this deserves it's own thread.

Would explain why Deanna couldn't feel Soji's emotions, while she could feel Data's and Lal's.

Maybe that's also the reason why the Zhat Vash want to have her terminated...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie

Soji cannot be a p-zombie, because we - as viewers - have viewed her own dream of her childhood. A p-zombie has no qualia - no internal experience whatsoever - thus it could not actually dream. It could report dreaming to the outside observer, but that's not the same thing.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Because plot.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Soji cannot be a p-zombie, because we - as viewers - have viewed her own dream of her childhood. A p-zombie has no qualia - no internal experience whatsoever - thus it could not actually dream. It could report dreaming to the outside observer, but that's not the same thing.

Who says that she experienced it...?

Might just be something her brain has cooked up, but there's no consciousness in her that experienced it.

 

[eschaton]

Who says that she experienced it...?

Might just be something her brain has cooked up, but there's no consciousness in her that experienced it.

A p-zombie wouldn't dream at all. The whole point is it doesn't experience - it just reports back to others that it has experienced. So it would "wake up" and say that it had a dream. Actually coding a "dream simulation" that no one really experienced would be a waste of time.

Regardless, the clear intent of the story and the direction is to make us think that Soji had internal experiences independent of what she shares with anyone else. The last episode pushed back concretely against the idea that she was "not real." It would be a hell of a whiplash to go back on this.

 

[Unimatrix Q]

A p-zombie wouldn't dream at all. The whole point is it doesn't experience - it just reports back to others that it has experienced. So it would "wake up" and say that it had a dream. Actually coding a "dream simulation" that no one really experienced would be a waste of time.

Regardless, the clear intent of the story and the direction is to make us think that Soji had internal experiences independent of what she shares with anyone else. The last episode pushed back concretely against the idea that she was "not real." It would be a hell of a whiplash to go back on this.

What if the dream sequence was just for the benefit of the viewer and she has no qualia?

So that the shock and surprise hits harder when her nature will be revealed...

 

[eschaton]

What if the dream sequence was just for the benefit of the viewer and she has no qualia?

So that the shock and surprise hits harder when her nature will be revealed...

Anything is possible, but this would be pretty off-brand for Trek.

I mean, we find out that things like the Horta have internal experiences just as rich and full as we do, despite external appearances.

 

[Noname Given]

I think this deserves it's own thread.

Would explain why Deanna couldn't feel Soji's emotions, while she could feel Data's and Lal's.

Maybe that's also the reason why the Zhat Vash want to have her terminated...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie

Troi can't 'read' Sonji because while she's covered in flesh - her underlying brain is positronic and artificial (thus non-biological) so yeah, Sonji is not giving off 'brainwaves' Troi can sense. It's just the STP writers actually UNDERSTAND that aspect (Some of the TNG era writers just assumed Troi can read anything, biological or not; as there were stories where she couldn't read Datya because he was artificial/mechanical. It's the same thing with Data's inability to use contration post S1 - "Datalore", where going forward they made that a limitation of his programming, because in a number of TNG S1 episodes up to that point, Data could USE contractions just fine.)