Could Anakin's Fall to the Dark Side Have Been Done Better?

[Prax]

I do feel like I should read the RotS novelization at some point, but I also suspect it's just going to make me annoyed with Anakin and the Jedi (regardless of whether I find them sympathetic) all over again.

It's a great book. You could go audiobook, but as well produced as SW Audiobooks are, I thinkyou lose something that you get from reading it yourself. Plus, the A.book is like 14 hours long.

You probably will get annoyed. The story is depressing, but a book will give you the thoughts of all those Jedi, and why they do the things they do, that a movie can only hint at. The book elaborates on how Obi-Wan comes to realize that he has been an enabler with Anakin, and how much he really blames himself for everything. It elaborates on how Mace Windu, this great Jedi who shuns attachments more than most, has one BIG attachment. Through fighting this great war, and focusing on Victory, the Jedi have gotten a sort of tunnel vision, and Yoda, who has seen all this coming from the beginning(albeit darkly), looks at events through an esoteric view. He also ends up blaming himself.

Usually novelizations are just a slightly modified screenplay, but the three prequel books are much more, and were put together with great care.

 

[DonIago]

I don't think I've heard much about the other two, but I definitely recall positive impressions of the RotS novelization. Heck, I skimmed it myself and thought "I should get this sometime, maybe."

 

[fireproof78]

I don't think I've heard much about the other two, but I definitely recall positive impressions of the RotS novelization. Heck, I skimmed it myself and thought "I should get this sometime, maybe."

Actually, Episode 1 is by Terry Brooks, and is quite well done as well. If there is any movie were ancillary material made it more enjoyable it was TPM. I read everything from the film novel, to the different "Journal" series, which were technically youth or YA, but I enjoyed them as well. Part of the reason my irritation at YA as a whole category being dismissed, but that's another rant

I think it was one of the first films that I really engaged in with multiple level of books, and video games, and toys. Just very immersive. It didn't "feel" very Star Wars to me, but the books and such added such a level of depth to it that I could appreciate it for being its own world.

I highly recommend TPM and ROTS novel. My favorite scene in the ROTS novel is the duel between Dooku, Anakin and Obi-Wan. Someday, maybe, I'll make a fan film of how that fight really should have been.

 

[Prax]

Did you read the second one?

 

[fireproof78]

Did you read the second one?

I did but it wasn't very memorable, in my opinion.

 

[Saul]

If Anakin's story had run more parallel to Luke's that would have been interesting. A good person who is trying to do the right thing but in using anger to defeat evil he falls to the darkside. I felt as a character he is rather selfish and arrogant and it's not really any surprise that he ends up the way he does. A larger fall from grace would have been more compelling. A point of difference between him and Luke could have been that Anakin doesn't throw the lightsaber away like Luke does and makes the wrong choice.

I felt Harry Potter did the whole fall to the dark side thing better. Not really talking about Harry but Voldemort. Sure he was more evil from the beginning but it's a fascinating backstory.

 

[suarezguy]

I felt Harry Potter did the whole fall to the dark side thing better. Not really talking about Harry but Voldemort. Sure he was more evil from the beginning but it's a fascinating backstory.

Interesting comparison, especially that Voldemort was also heavily motivated by wanting to prolong life (although for himself). He did have a pretty tragic, sympathetic background although not enough to make him, especially in the present, sympathetic.

I think it might have been better to not have the Jedi forbid marriages and so Anakin's be secret, that feels a little cliche (though inconsistent with the OT) and also makes the Jedi seem a little too extreme and unreasonable.

 

[DonIago]

Except that, as shown, Anakin gets overly emotionally-invested in one person and Palpatine exploits it.

 

[Prax]

The Jedi have a ban on personal attatchments. The reason is: Jedi train to become all powerful space wizards. If a regular Joe falls into temptation, he could become a criminal. If a Jedi falls into temptation, they seem to become supervillains, like Gary Mitchell. A marriage can be a major vulnerability, maybe not for many Jedi, but it will always be for some. Plus they are serving a higher purpose. They are married to the order, and serving the republic.

The OT doesn't go into the old order's policies, but the Jedi we do see seem to fall in line with this idea. Obi-Wan doesn't appear to have ever been married, and he's been living alone for 20 years. I'd like to think Yoda had cute little green wife back when he was only 150, but he doesn't seem to have. And Luke, who has an interest in girls in episode 4 and 5, is deadly serious in episode 6, and seems very asexual from that point(not counting the EU)
And some Jedi marry. They just aren't supposed to form attachments.

There's always the real world analogy. The Jedi are space monks, and monks/ascetics often take vow of celibacy, or at least a vow to "put away" worldly pleasures, and focus on a higher purpose, like charity, teaching, studying scriptures, etc.

 

[The Doctor]

I hated the notion that Jedi were celebate and separate from the very people they were sworn to protect. It made no sense that an order founded on the life force of the universe would shut themselves off from people, attachments and love. It especially didn’t make sense with the material we were given in the OT. Force sensitivity ran in families. Can’t have those without relationships, without attachments.

The Jedi aren’t monks, hiding away and pouring over old books, they’re champions. They live amongst the people of the galaxy, righting wrongs, mediating disputes and, when the need arose, fighting in a war for the very survival of the Republic.

In my head canon, before the prequels, I always assumed that Anakin and Obi-Wan met as adults, they they were separated by some years or even a decade, but not as a child meeting an adult. Anakin was a smart, fearless pilot who, unconsciously, relied heavily on the Force to survive insane odds. Obi-Wan and he we’re fast friends and, in the backdrop of war, Obi-Wan though that he could train Anakin to consciously harness his latent powers.

But Obi-Wan misjudged Anakin. While it was true that Anakin was a good man to his friends, he had no larger sense of duty and purpose. Anakin didn’t care about galactic rights and wrongs, but about his close knit family and friends. When there were taken away from him in he Clone Wars, Anakin became rudderless and easily manipulated by Palpatine to do whatever was necessary to end the chaos of the Republic and bring the order and stability that the Empire represented. Obi-Wan and the few Jedi remaining after the clone wars, ever the principled defender of individuals, ran afoul of Palpatine and his New Order and were eliminated.

This formation of the Empire and the destruction of the Jedi took years, decades even. It was during this time that Anakin met and fell in love with Luke and Leia’s mother. Not as an innocent Jedi, but as Palpatine’s right fist. Obi-Wan convinced her to flee, rather than stay and give birth to children destined to fall to the dark side under the threat of the ever darkening Anakin. Anakin pursued Obi-Wan and it was this last betrayal by his love and his old friend that, ironically, pushed him fully to the Dark Side. Obi-Wan fought and defeated Anakin, thinking him dead, and help hide the twins and their mother.

But Anakin wasn’t dead. He was reborn, encased in he metal shell of Darth Vader. Vader hunted down his former love and she gave her life to distract him long enough for Obi-Wan to spirit the children away. They would be separated to protect them from Vader. The boy would go to live with Obi-Wans estranged younger brother on Tatooine and the girl would go to Alderaan, protected by the general who commanded Obi-Wan during the clone wars. Driven by visions of the boy’s future force powers, Obi-Wan decided to stay close to him and ensure that, when the Force willed it, he would be there to guide young Luke down the right path.

So, needless to say, I was pretty disappointed with the prequels and Anakin’s ‘fall.’

 

[Prax]

I think Obi-Wan was always meant to be older than Anakin as Anakin was his student. He says to Obi-Wan in A New Hope "Your skills are weak, old man." and earlier, Obi Wan says to Luke "A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine, before he turned to evil."

I think the rest is largely consistent with the story. Anakin doesn't care about the big picture, or politics, or the Jedi's truisms. He just cares about his friends and family, like Obi Wan, his mom, and Padme. He was manipulated by Palpatine against the Jedi. Palpatine used his fear of losing loved ones against him, then gave him the excuse he needed to justify his betrayal. "End the war. Bring order to the galaxy. Save the Republic."

As for the children, Anakin didn't know they existed, so I guess for that to work, he would have to be led to believe they died.
Unless she ran away before he knew she was pregnant, and came and killed her after the children were born and taken into hiding. And hopefully Padme doesn't think about them during their confrontation, or Vader will sense her thoughts as he did Luke's. This would also have to be a Vader not yet wearing the suit, which he was given to him as a result of Obi-Wan throwing him into a volcano.

Then the rest is the same, except Obi-Wan is the General ("General Kenobi, years ago you served my father"). And Leia's father was a senator or royalty or something.

 

[suarezguy]

There's always the real world analogy. The Jedi are space monks, and monks/ascetics often take vow of celibacy, or at least a vow to "put away" worldly pleasures, and focus on a higher purpose, like charity, teaching, studying scriptures, etc.

I think it's interesting that in the OT Yoda seems very ascetic while Obi-Wan very much doesn't, Obi-Wan seems pretty worldly (and not approving of all such things but a lot of them), so there were a lot of ways for the viewer to interpret the Jedi and what they had been like and that the prequel films could have depicted them.

A funny element is that in ANH Obi-Wan kind of encourages and exploits Luke's crush on Leia and Lucas chose to emphasize it as a possible pairing, inconsistent with both no romantic attachments and the later-discovered sibling status.

 

[fireproof78]

A funny element is that in ANH Obi-Wan kind of encourages and exploits Luke's crush on Leia and Lucas chose to emphasize it as a possible pairing, inconsistent with both no romantic attachments and the later-discovered sibling status.

A side effect of the writing process, especially evident by "Splinter of a Mind's Eye."

 

[Jedi_Master]

To the OP: A thousand times yes.

 

[suarezguy]

A hero shown to become a villain is pretty rare but there have been some instances. The biggest are probably Michael Corleone in The Godfather (though he was relatively noble but somewhat shady all along) and Harvey Dent in The Dark Knight.

 

[Prax]

I think tragedy stories, where the villain wins, are pretty rare in general for movies.

 

[fireproof78]

Macbeth?

 

[Guy Gardener]

Agreed.

Padme should have turned him evil

Padme mind controlled by Palpatine, or Padme who had always been working for Palpatine, but the only way to get Anikan to become "evil" was through love and sex, and since they were never going to show a relationship between a teenager and a sexagenarian, I guess pushing that goon into the arms of the most beautiful woman in the universe will have to do.

 

[Venardhi]

Having Palpatine pulling her strings would have been too pat and make everyone look like even more of an idiot than they already do. It is much more interesting if her goodness and idealism is what shatters their bond and finally pushes him over the edge. It is that much more tragic if know she's the one who could have saved him.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Her goodness?

To this day I have no idea why he turned, to the Dark Side, before making sure that Padme was safe.

The Jedi told him to accept the prophecy of Padme's death, and Palpatine said that the Sith had super death reverse powers, that can bring Padme back as soon as she dies in childbirth...

Really?

But what about Plan B?

Snap Luke and Leia's necks in utero, with the force ASAP, so that Padme can poop the babybones out, and the adults can live happily ever after. Seriously at one point Anikan claimed that Obi-Wan was her babydaddy, so while "Vader" believed that staggering miss-truth, he had no skin in this game, because some deadbeat violated his wife with unwanted baby batter, that needed to be washed out. (This is how crazy people may think. Anikan was crazy as well as not smart.)

You live by the bro-code, or you die by the bro-code.

Actually if sex is allowed, but love isn't, if those are the rules, getting your girlfriend to play the field with your work colleagues, will deflect how intimate your relationship is, if your true love is mistaken by internal affairs as just another sabre bunny, so Anikan should have been encouraging a tryst between Ben and Padme, not getting into a force rage about her imagined betrayal.