Could a new Trek show done in the 90's TNG/DS9 style work today?

[Alexander Corrino]

I don’t want any 90s Trek anymore. We have hundreds of hours of it. Those who want that can always watch those shows. I don’t think the 90s way of doing things (visuals, storytelling) could work on today’s television market.

However - I do think there’s a reasonable demand within the Trek fandom for less serialized shows (hence why they’re now making SNW). Trek just works best in a somewhat episodic format, imo.

The franchise doesn’t have to run after EVERY current television trend. Just because heavily serialized stuff is trendy right now doesn’t automatically mean it’s the right thing for the Trek franchise. I think they COULD get away with the serialized stuff IF they released entire seasons in one go tho. That way people could binge. I’ve heard from SO many fans who said they liked both Disco and PIC much better once they binge-watched it. This is the way this stuff is meant to be watched. (I get that they can’t do that since they want to keep their paying customers watching.)

 

[Bornin1980something]

Did the franchise even run after every TV trend in the '90s?

 

[Steve Roby]

However - I do think there’s a reasonable demand within the Trek fandom for less serialized shows (hence why they’re now making SNW). Trek just works best in a somewhat episodic format, imo.

The franchise doesn’t have to run after EVERY current television trend. Just because heavily serialized stuff is trendy right now doesn’t automatically mean it’s the right thing for the Trek franchise. I think they COULD get away with the serialized stuff IF they released entire seasons in one go tho. That way people could binge. I’ve heard from SO many fans who said they liked both Disco and PIC much better once they binge-watched it. This is the way this stuff is meant to be watched. (I get that they can’t do that since they want to keep their paying customers watching.)

DS9 became steadily more serialized as it went along, so that's not something entirely new for Star Trek. Voyager tried occasionally but never really committed because that's not what the execs wanted. (Still took two years to ditch the Kazon.) Anyway, I don't see it so much as Star Trek chasing after current TV friends as living up to what Kurtzman's been saying for years now, basically, that the reason to have multiple Trek series is to offer multiple styles of Trek storytelling. And doing that in the 21st century TV world of streaming instead of the '00s world of desperately trying to make UPN work, or a '90s world of doing pretty well in syndication, or a '60s world of three big networks.

 

[Mudd]

Why not - a new Trek show done in the style of the 60s worked in the late 80s.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I feel like viewers in the 90s were dying for Trek to evolve and become something with a bit more serialisation. Where the universe could change over time, characters could remember the technology they'd found and the torture that happened to O'Brien last week, and the reset button has a note on it saying 'out of order'.

So I feel like the sweet spot between episodic and serialised 90 inspired Trek is possibly closer to late DS9, Stargate and Farscape, than it is to TNG and Voyager. New stories every week, no Buffy season arcs, but moderate character continuity and consequences. I'm hoping that's where Strange New Worlds ends up.

 

[fireproof78]

I feel like viewers in the 90s were dying for Trek to evolve and become something with a bit more serialisation.

All I want is for shit to matter, especially with characters. Knowledge, experience and struggle creates changes in people. Things that happen should feel impactful beyond the end credits. Call it serialization or whatever.

 

[Jayson1]

I want a Trek show that has the modern techniques of filming and budget but captures the positive vibe of 90's Trek. So basically more Orville.

 

[fireproof78]

I want a Trek show that has the modern techniques of filming and budget but captures the positive vibe of 90's Trek. So basically more Orville.

Does that include the alien rape?

You can have optimism without repeating history. In fact, I would say Discovery and Picard are more like TOS in recognizing hardship and the human spirit ability to move forward, rather than wrapping it up free of consequences.

 

[Bry_Sinclair]

DS9 still holds up today, though it helps with a slew of good writers and actors to create interesting, diverse and engaging characters to life.

 

[jackoverfull]

Does that include the alien rape?

Well, one of the staples of Star Trek is supposedly dealing with uncomfortable topics, three years later and you keep bringing up something that clearly made you uncomfortable, an episode that dealt with rape, cultural differences, the importance of free will and also bisexuality (dealing with it much more naturally than discovery ever did with LGBT+ topics). I’d say mission accomplished!

 

[Steve Roby]

Well, one of the staples of Star Trek is supposedly dealing with uncomfortable topics, three years later and you keep bringing up something that clearly made you uncomfortable, an episode that dealt with rape, cultural differences, the importance of free will and also bisexuality (dealing with it much more naturally than discovery ever did with LGBT+ topics). I’d say mission accomplished!

Rape isn't an uncomfortable topic, it's a form of criminal assault. You don't need rape jokes to tell a story about cultural differences around sex. About the most charitable thing I can think of to say about that episode is that it could possibly be seen as a misfired parody of TNG's Troi metaphorical or literal rape moments ("The Child," "Man of the People," "Violations," Star Trek: Nemesis). And those rarely examined any kind of message around rape, they demonstrated that TNG's writers didn't have many ideas for stories about the women on the show.

 

[fireproof78]

Well, one of the staples of Star Trek is supposedly dealing with uncomfortable topics, three years later and you keep bringing up something that clearly made you uncomfortable, an episode that dealt with rape, cultural differences, the importance of free will and also bisexuality (dealing with it much more naturally than discovery ever did with LGBT+ topics). I’d say mission accomplished!

So the mission is to treat these topics for laughs and make it so offensive as to make Spock's comments to Rand after evil Kirk assaulted her look sensitive?
Orville occasionally did commentary well. But the jokes fail to make it land properly. Notice I'm not talking about rape or assault as the horrors or traumatizing events that they are. I'm talking about bad jokes.

Mission accomplished. See also Enterprise's Unexpected for similar sensitivity.

 

[jackoverfull]

Rape isn't an uncomfortable topic, it's a form of criminal assault. You don't need rape jokes to tell a story about cultural differences around sex. About the most charitable thing I can think of to say about that episode is that it could possibly be seen as a misfired parody of TNG's Troi metaphorical or literal rape moments ("The Child," "Man of the People," "Violations," Star Trek: Nemesis). And those rarely examined any kind of message around rape, they demonstrated that TNG's writers didn't have many ideas for stories about the women on the show.

But it was not rape in that alien culture, in fact turning down sex was considered rude.

Just like Spock “killing” Kirk on Amol Time was not considered criminal.

So the mission is to treat these topics for laughs

it was not (only) treated for laughs.

Also note that those aliens didn’t really know when they were in heat or not, so I would be careful with the rape accusations.

And bar you, it was one of my favourite episodes, yet it’s interesting for what they did.

 

[fireproof78]

And bar you, it was one of my favourite episodes, yet it’s interesting for what they did.

Clearly, given the ardent defensive of it.

From my perspective it was the worst styles of 90s Trek and poorly handled sexuality. There were better episodes.

 

[Steve Roby]

This is worth a few minutes of reading time.

https://mythcreants.com/blog/six-misogynist-messages-from-the-orville/

 

[jackoverfull]

“Rant” is a good definition for this kind of “article”.

 

[Steve Roby]

Really? Seems pretty reasonably stated and well argued to me.

 

[jackoverfull]

To me it seems he is taking a bunch of points he didn’t like and exaggerates them, overstating their presence in the show by lengths.

 

[Lynx]

I don’t want any 90s Trek anymore. We have hundreds of hours of it. Those who want that can always watch those shows. I don’t think the 90s way of doing things (visuals, storytelling) could work on today’s television market.

However - I do think there’s a reasonable demand within the Trek fandom for less serialized shows (hence why they’re now making SNW). Trek just works best in a somewhat episodic format, imo.

The franchise doesn’t have to run after EVERY current television trend. Just because heavily serialized stuff is trendy right now doesn’t automatically mean it’s the right thing for the Trek franchise. I think they COULD get away with the serialized stuff IF they released entire seasons in one go tho. That way people could binge. I’ve heard from SO many fans who said they liked both Disco and PIC much better once they binge-watched it. This is the way this stuff is meant to be watched. (I get that they can’t do that since they want to keep their paying customers watching.)

And I don't want to see a second more of the blod-splattering doom-and-gloom dystopic 2010's and 2020's Trek. There are already too much od such crap going on, especially those Middle Ages series which sword-waving bearded gnomes and the dystopic futures series where everything has gone to hell. I'd rather watch the first three seasons of Voyager for the 250th time than having to be drowned in all those negative series we have to stand now. Not even NCIS is worth watching anymore.

It Trek joins the doom-and-gloom league, then it's better if it is cancelled.

And if people actually are paying to see those dystopic series, then the world is in real trouble.

 

[XCV330]

And if people actually are paying to see those dystopic series, then the world is in real trouble.

Discovery is not doom and gloom. You don't HAVE to be wrong about it to dislike it. Season 3 and 4 had their faults, but gloom was not one of them. I will admit, PIC season 1 was pretty gloomy, but both series seem to have taken a bottom to the top approach.