Could a good Dune movie be made or not
- Thread starter Hypaspist
- Start date
I like the mini-series and movie but I agree with people here that they didn't get it right. One movie is too short. Special effects are better now.
I think Game of Thrones mini-series style might do it justice but I'd like it treated a bit more 'seriously' (maybe thats not the correct word).
I'm also thinking that some of the great detail (which is fascinating to me) but could 'lose' your mainstream audience could be hived off into an external mini-movies like nuBSG did with the fate of the other Battlestar. So you could have say 10? episodes and 2 mini-movies.
What could they do with the giant worms to make them look more awesome on screen. Its hard to make worms look good.
I think Game of Thrones mini-series style might do it justice but I'd like it treated a bit more 'seriously' (maybe thats not the correct word).
I'm also thinking that some of the great detail (which is fascinating to me) but could 'lose' your mainstream audience could be hived off into an external mini-movies like nuBSG did with the fate of the other Battlestar. So you could have say 10? episodes and 2 mini-movies.
What could they do with the giant worms to make them look more awesome on screen. Its hard to make worms look good.
Anybody interested in the possibilities of a great Dune movie NEEDS to watch Jodorowsky's Dune. This is an absolutely fascinating documentary about a pre-Star Wars attempt to get an epic version of Dune off the ground, that had it come to fruition, would have changed the course of cinematic history.
The film looks as though it would have been incredible, and is packed with amazing ideas about how they would have brought it to life, but even more interesting is to see the depth of impact an unmade film has had upon Sci-Fi since. It's designs and ideas are strewn throughout subsequent films like Star Wars, Alien & Blade Runner.
The film looks as though it would have been incredible, and is packed with amazing ideas about how they would have brought it to life, but even more interesting is to see the depth of impact an unmade film has had upon Sci-Fi since. It's designs and ideas are strewn throughout subsequent films like Star Wars, Alien & Blade Runner.
I forgot to mention (no, the Padishah Emperor Shaddam IV is not my father
) that The Making of Dune, by Ed Naha, is a terrific book detailing the behind-the-scenes account of the Lynch movie. It's amazing how they managed to overcome some of the insane obstacles they encountered to turn out a movie. From casting problems to finding a location with enough desert to dealing with actors getting sick from the local food/water, not to mention having to wear black rubber stillsuits in the middle of a desert, to the language barriers (English, Spanish, Italian, and one other that escapes my memory at the moment)... there were a lot of problems to deal with. You can't skip God Emperor of Dune. Yes, I know there's not a lot of real action except at the beginning, the end, and a couple of scenes in the middle. Most of it is Leto rambling and the other characters either adoring him, hating him, or being confused by him. But it does explain why the Bene Gesserit in the subsequent books call him the Tyrant and consider Jessica a Bene Gesserit traitor. It's also important to have Duncan's point of view, since he serves as the audience's "spokesperson" who wakes up to find that 3000 years has passed (up to then no Duncan Idaho ghola has remembered any other existence than that of his original pre-death life) and everything he knew is gone and he has to fit in with this crazy new society that doesn't make the slightest bit of sense. Plus, keep in mind that there's 1500 years between God Emperor and Heretics.
There would have to be some tweaking of the end of Chapterhouse: Dune, since it ends on a cliffhanger.
Yikes, yes. I was actually thinking of the first scene with Duncan and Murbella; Duncan was physically about 15 years old at that time. But filming the Miles Teg scene would be even worse, since that character was still physically a young child.
Sorry, my mistake. I was thinking of the "weirding modules" in the movie. There is nothing like that in the book. The Atreides soldiers use battle techniques based more on the methods of the Swordmasters of Ginaz than anything connected to the Bene Gesserit (after all, most people of the Imperium consider them to be witches).
It seems that what one version did right, the other did wrong. Take the stillsuits, for example. The ones used in the Lynch movie were ludicrous. They didn't allow the Fremen to blend in with the desert, nor did any of the Fremen wear robes over top of them. And they actually worked in reverse to the way the books stated. In the Lynch movie, the Fremen were losing moisture every time they talked or exhaled, since pretty much none of the actors remembered they were supposed to breathe in through their mouths and out through their noses. The miniseries got that part right, including the proper breathing apparatus as part of the appropriately-colored stillsuits.
Still on costuming... Irulan's gown in the movie was entirely appropriate for someone who had to function as an ornament to the court, and who didn't have to do a lick of manual labor whatsoever. Irulan's clothing in the miniseries was a bit more practical, but some of it was rather bizarre (butterfly dress, I'm looking at you!)
The miniseries is also known for its funny hats:
Speaking of Wensicia, did you know that she's supposed to be younger than Irulan? Susan Sarandon is definitely not younger than Julie Cox...
I've seen artists' conceptions of that, and they're stomach-turning. That, plus the rumor that there was to be a scene where Paul and Jessica commit incest, makes me glad this version never got made.
...and Prometheus.
The line of dome structures (one of which the Prometheus crew explores) was actually meant to be Harkomnen architecture in Jodorovsky's Dune.
As for whether or not a good Dune movie can be made? In my humble opinion, good efforts have already been made....twice....with both the 1984 release and the SciFi Channel miniseries. I enjoyed them both. And I saw the 1984 film well before I ever even read the novel. And I didn't need a cheat sheet at the theater. The only thing I'd read in the novel before seeing the film was the Imperium Dictionary in the back....and that was all I needed.
I think, between the 1984 film (especially the ill edited extended version) and the director's cut of the 2000 SciFi miniseries, you have almost the entirety of the novel.
The miniseries had a few more events from the novel, but the Lynch film was more correct and accurate in dialogue.
The reason that the Lynch version features energy weapons called "Weirding Modules" is because David Lynch did not want "Kung Fu in the Desert"... So the weirding modules made more for the shoot 'em up type movie.
To me, one event I would loved to have seen in either the film or the miniseries is the scene where Idaho is helping Paul and Lady Jessica escape, and there is a small nuclear explosion going off behind them. Jessica gasps: "Not the family atomics!?". Idaho points out (with a devilish grin, IIRC) that it was an underground shield set to full force. A Harkonnen tunneling team using lasguns had one of their beams intersect with it and.....
That said, I personally would not mind seeing another go at a Dune movie.
Dune is probably my all time favorite sci-fi book. (as one reviewer put it, it is for science fiction what Lord of the Rings was for fantasy).
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To me, the Dune and Children of Dune mini-series were excellent. anything they changed or left out was honestly a good thing to me, I've read the books a decent amount of times and I can't think of anything removed or changed that wasn't at least a neutral change, neither good or bad, and some of the changes were an improvement. I honestly don't think it needs a movie, or could really be done in a movie length of time without splitting it into parts, and even then I don't think anything will beat the two mini-series for me.
Right there with you on the two miniseries. Loved them both.
I probably would not want to see Dune done as a theatrical trilogy. I wouldn't want to wait six months to two years for the second and third parts. LoTR folk might have such patience....I don't. If I wanna wait six months to two years for new parts, well, that's what we have Star Wars for.
But done again as a televised miniseries...I could easily go for that.
I don't think I'd want to see a miniseries done for the simple fact that it wouldn't look good enough. Dune has a lot of dialogue, but a lot of really descriptive imagery, and it is mostly some pretty far out stuff. Soap opera style intrigue shouldn't be center stage.
I remember the series being on but never really getting into it. I do remember thinking that Paul looked like one of the Backstreet Boys.
I remember the series being on but never really getting into it. I do remember thinking that Paul looked like one of the Backstreet Boys.
Lol.... i hear ya, Hypaspist (had to recheck your screenname to make sure I got the spelling rignt...else it would've come out looking like Hypnotist or something ).
Both the film and the miniseries were products of their times.
The film had Paul with long hair, and looking like he'd be just as comfortable in a Star Wars movie as he did in Dune. The miniseries had Paul with short hair, growing somewhat wilder as his time in the desert passed.
Also, the stillsuits in the film were made more for their "80's coolness" factor. That's why they didn't have hoods like the novel (or the miniseries) had. The 80's stillsuits did at least look functional, if impractical for their "coolness" factor.
). Both the film and the miniseries were products of their times.
The film had Paul with long hair, and looking like he'd be just as comfortable in a Star Wars movie as he did in Dune. The miniseries had Paul with short hair, growing somewhat wilder as his time in the desert passed.
Also, the stillsuits in the film were made more for their "80's coolness" factor. That's why they didn't have hoods like the novel (or the miniseries) had. The 80's stillsuits did at least look functional, if impractical for their "coolness" factor.
I forgot to mention (no, the Padishah Emperor Shaddam IV is not my father
I am aware of it and have heard good things about it, but the last time I went looking for it on eBay or Amazon people were asking silly money for it. :/
Like I said, I went into it with some more depth in this thread, but my general notion would be to weave the GeoD material into the narrative of Heratics & Chapterhouse. There is indeed important stuff in there, but I think it need not be introduced in a linear fashion.
IMO the narrative of GEoD is just incompatible with a direct adaptation and any attempt to re-interpret the material into something more tolerable would I think be ultimately pointless, if not downright counter productive. Personally, I like the idea of going from the end of CoD straight into Heretics. Hell, I might even say it'd be a great hook to put in the final episode of the CoD season. To go from Leto declaring himself God Emperor, right into that little historical presentation scene at the beginning Heratics (?) would certainly get an audience's attention. I'm thinking shades of 'Deconstruction of Falling Stars' meets the "shape of things to come" stinger from Caprica.
Besides, as luck would have it Other Memory and Leto's little prescient messages he left behind gives a totally valid in-universe mechanism for flashabacks. With that in mind, Leto could very much be a presence for both Duncan and Odrade.
As for Chapterhouse's ending; I'd pretty much leave it as is. Ambiguous and open to interpretation with humanity's future a mystery. Perhaps I'd leave out the bit about the capsule with the DNA samples of Paul, Jessica etc., but that's all really.
IIRC Sarandon was a fan and actively lobbied for the part (or at least "A" part.) While at first it seems at odds with the idea that Irulan would be next in line, it's not unheard of for a monarch to specify a younger descendent heir designate, usually if the older sibling is unsuitable or simply ill favoured (indeed the Baron intended exactly that for Feyd over Rabban, the elder nephew.)
In the case of Wessica it works quite well into her character if she's bitter over being cheated out of her birthright (most likely at the behest of the BG) and feels her claim to the throne is stronger. It's a change, yes but I think a worthwhile one in order to get such a good actress in the role.
As previously indicated, I'm with Timewalker on this one. Jodorowsky's take on Dune would have been horrendous as a Dune adaptation. That aside, despite all of Jodorowsky's ambitions and grand proclamations, his approach had all the hallmarks of a spectacular flop. Pingfah is correct in that it indeed a fascinating documentary and worth watching for anyone interested in the history of cinema. I just happen to think that what we got in it's stead was far better than what I think we would have gotten had Jodorowsky gotten his way.
Don't get be wrong, the artwork was visionary and the pre-production team was a very talented and eclectic group of individuals...but I think the weak point would have been the script and the direction; needless to say, for a film that's kind fo a biggie.
Of course we'll never knew for sure, but for me a science fiction film which features a hot, arid desert planet that is also a rogue body with no star to orbit...clearly isn't written by someone with even the slightest notion of science. The less said about conception though drops of blood and Paul's minding possessing all of humanity the better! Yikes.
For all it's "out there" concepts, Herbert's work has always been grounded in a solid foundation of science. Indeed, IIRC the main inspiration for Dune int he first instance was an ecological article in a science periodical about holding back expanding desert dunes with the planting of poverty grass.
Sure.. Lynch came close in parts but horribly mishandled others.
I love the visual design of the movie, it came pretty close to how i envisioned this universe and the personal shields looked cool.
However they dropped the ball in other areas, most notably the Fremen and the ending.. rain on Dune just because of Paul? Gimme a break.
I also disliked the sonic modules of the Fremen.. it was the movie way of making it visually acceptable for the Fremen to beat well equipped imperial forces. It deprived us of a simple but awesome scene between Tufir and the Baron where they talk about the Fremen and their power and Tufir explains to the Baron exactly why the Fremen are the single best fighting force humanity knows.
So in all respect the first attempt did quite ok and with some changes and modern movie fight styles (think Captain America 2 with a little more toned down physical power, Fremen are not genetically modified superheroes) i believe it could be done quite well.
If given good marketing and an appropriate budget (maybe two/three movies) i think it could be a big hit at the movies today.
I love the visual design of the movie, it came pretty close to how i envisioned this universe and the personal shields looked cool.
However they dropped the ball in other areas, most notably the Fremen and the ending.. rain on Dune just because of Paul? Gimme a break.
I also disliked the sonic modules of the Fremen.. it was the movie way of making it visually acceptable for the Fremen to beat well equipped imperial forces. It deprived us of a simple but awesome scene between Tufir and the Baron where they talk about the Fremen and their power and Tufir explains to the Baron exactly why the Fremen are the single best fighting force humanity knows.
So in all respect the first attempt did quite ok and with some changes and modern movie fight styles (think Captain America 2 with a little more toned down physical power, Fremen are not genetically modified superheroes) i believe it could be done quite well.
If given good marketing and an appropriate budget (maybe two/three movies) i think it could be a big hit at the movies today.
Children of Dune MANGLED the Jacurutu testing storyline. Other than that it was more or less fine.
BigJake said:
It was basically just a kind of glossary, not unlike the "Terminology of the Imperium" one in the book.
Oh, good. I was afraid it would be like #15 here.
http://www.cracked.com/article_19269_the-16-most-baffling-pieces-official-merchandise-ever.html
http://www.cracked.com/article_19269_the-16-most-baffling-pieces-official-merchandise-ever.html
I honestly don't understand why Jodorowsky was even going to connect the movie to Dune. Aside from character names and the presence of giant worms, there's no similarity to the novel at all. Just change the names and release it as an original work, which is what Jodorowsky did anyway when he turned his Dune script into a graphic novel. Hell, Jodorowsky admitted he never read Dune anyway. Whatever problems the Lynch movie has, and I'll admit there are many, at least Lynch read the book and tried to adapt it.
But on the matter of the original topic, honestly, Dune just isn't a novel that works as a movie. There's too much of it to squeeze into two or three hours, and that's what the Lynch movie suffers from. The TV mini series is a better adaptation but even that had to condense quite a bit. Should another attempt be made at adapting it, maybe a ten episode season similar to Game of Thrones might be the best route to take, IMO.
Personally I liekd both Lynch's movie and Harrison's miniseries, but they both added to and took elements away from the book. That being said there's always room for a more faithful adaptation. But I sense there's a desire among filmakers to turn Dune into an action movie, now while the book had some good action scenes in it, it's hard to call it an outright action story.
But I did love Giger's art for one of the early failed attempts to bring the book to the screen.
But I did love Giger's art for one of the early failed attempts to bring the book to the screen.
I agree but beyond that, series like American Horror Story and True Detective (if it does get a second season) have already set the stage for different characters and stories each season of a show. Perfect for interpreting the entire series.
I think it should be a very visual movie but not an action movie. It's kind of like Lord of the Rings in that way - what amazing looking movies! The action in them was the most boring thing of all.
Looking at the movies on youtube and on photos, they are kind of underwhelming in some ways while good in others. The stilsuits look good, and so do the sand worms. The Saudaukar are not at all what I envisioned in the book - not threatening at all. If I can find the Lynch movie and watch it, I can make a full diagnosis, but it looks to be mostly a success. I think you simply can't convey all of the book into film.
At the risk of stating the obvious: just start at the beginning and end at the end. It's really not that complex a story. Pretty standard messianic/hero's journey. The strangeness is in the trappings of the world, some cack-handed effects and the use of voice over as internal monologue.
Looking stuff up ahead of time probably won't make much difference one way or the other.
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