Cost of Living
- Thread starter Kamdan
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As a Federation Ambassador she has diplomatic immunity, so Worf can just suck it 
As a Federation Ambassador she has diplomatic immunity, so Worf can just suck it
I doubt diplomatic immunity would apply given that she wasn't in a foreign country.
As a Federation Ambassador she has diplomatic immunity, so Worf can just suck it
That is your 2oth century mind worrying, lol. In fact, Lwaxana took a young, troubled friend for a swim in some mud to make him laugh. Lwaxana was pure of heart!
That doesn't fit because Barclay would never be carefree, and he would be uncomfortable in a mud bath... and Molly is not a "Little Warrior." Lwanxana brought Alexander to the mudd bath because that was her personality, and how SHE chose to get away from a tense situation as well. If Barclay wanted to cheer up a troubled Molly if she was having trouble with her parents, he would have brought her on a tour of engineering. (Perhaps Data would plunk a kid down into a mud bath....but not Barclay.) Also, It seems natural for Lwanxana to be married in the nude, but it wouldn't be natural if Barclay got married in the nude, lol...different personalities.
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Maybe Grandma was a terrorist.
My point wasn't about the personalities, but the situation. Let's say they are the same type personalities, but gender swapped. For hypothetical example, it's Deanna's eccentric Uncle Beebo Troi, who's just like his twin sister Lwaxana, & instead of Alexander, it's Ensign Taurik's hypothetical half Vulcan/Human 7 year old daughter, who Beebo thinks shouldn't have to be raised like a repressed Vulcan etc... The point is, when gender swapped, this episode's situations undoubtedly draw criticism, & maybe outrage
One thing we have to bear in mind is how culture was different in 1992.
Just like we don't consider it weird in Sunrise (1927) when a man sets out to murder his wife, changes his mind at the last minute, and she forgives him in 15 minutes and falls deeper in love with him than ever before.
1992 is the same year where The Simpsons has an episode where a mental patient who thinks he's Michael Jackson spends the entire night in Bart Simpson's bedroom. In this period of time kids walked home from school and played outside around the neighborhood all day with or without supervision. People just trusted their neighbors with their children a lot more back then.
Just like we don't consider it weird in Sunrise (1927) when a man sets out to murder his wife, changes his mind at the last minute, and she forgives him in 15 minutes and falls deeper in love with him than ever before.
1992 is the same year where The Simpsons has an episode where a mental patient who thinks he's Michael Jackson spends the entire night in Bart Simpson's bedroom. In this period of time kids walked home from school and played outside around the neighborhood all day with or without supervision. People just trusted their neighbors with their children a lot more back then.
It's supposed to happen in a very responsible, almost crime-free society of the 24th century. So no matter what the characters' genders are, there's nothing disgusting or creepy going on.
A mud bath is just a mud bath. Two naked people are just naked people. That's our vision that makes it sound weird, mostly because we live in a f###ed up real world where there are murders, kidnapping and sex crimes.
If you put aside the possibility of abuse and crimes, nudity is just nudity, a bath is just a bath, a person is just a person (no matter their gender, age...). For centuries, loads of cultures considered it normal for the whole family to bath together, and it doesn't mean all fathers involved were horrific incestuous criminals.
Also, yes the audience probably wouldn't have reacted the same if the episode was about an adult man having a bath with a little girl...because we live in societies that still consider women to be inoffensive motherly creatures, and men to be dangerous predators. Another example of sexist clichés...
A mud bath is just a mud bath. Two naked people are just naked people. That's our vision that makes it sound weird, mostly because we live in a f###ed up real world where there are murders, kidnapping and sex crimes.
If you put aside the possibility of abuse and crimes, nudity is just nudity, a bath is just a bath, a person is just a person (no matter their gender, age...). For centuries, loads of cultures considered it normal for the whole family to bath together, and it doesn't mean all fathers involved were horrific incestuous criminals.
Also, yes the audience probably wouldn't have reacted the same if the episode was about an adult man having a bath with a little girl...because we live in societies that still consider women to be inoffensive motherly creatures, and men to be dangerous predators. Another example of sexist clichés...
Yeah I understand the point you're trying to make, A odd guy in the 20th century might cause suspicion, even if it is just a mud bath. But any any character who is portrayed as pure of heart, who is mentoring a "little warrior" type of child, regardless of he characters' genders, I think would yield the same humorous story. Really, a bowl of mud is just a bowl of mud. Also, mud baths in most people's minds are either funny, or just spa treatments.
Which is the primary reason it is creepy. I don't really care about the mud bath per say. It's this weird relation she has taken with someone else's kid, who she's literally undermining in how he raises him
She's dedinitely undermining Worf's education efforts, no doubt. But I don't think it's creepy that she's taking care of someone else's kid. On contrary, I feel like our culture tends to consider kids their parents' possessions far too much. It's like children don't have the freedom to have friends and get along with people their parents didn't choose for them. They're supposed to like who their parents chose, to get along with who their parents decided, to be intetested in what their parents want...And any unrelated-by-blood adult who would get along and bond with the child is immediately considered as a sicko.
As someone who's been brought up both by my parents and by their best friend, I have difficulties understanding the modern "cage" children's relationships are put into.
As someone who's been brought up both by my parents and by their best friend, I have difficulties understanding the modern "cage" children's relationships are put into.
I agree that she's undermining Worf's authority as the father. That's not cool at all, and I'm not condoning that. I think that Worf needed a wake-up call that his kid needed to find his own path, but that's another thread. What I liked about Lwaxana's interest in Alexander is the need for "chosen family". Having lost his mother and his grandparents, he needed other adults besides Work in his life. My kids have grown up without their grandparents' active involvement in their lives. A very kind older woman reached out to my children and became their "adopted" grandmother. She was involved in their lives for several year, filling that void my kids had, so I suppose my perspective is colored by that experience. While I agree that Lwaxana was not correct in her actions, she was very sincere in her intent, and I think that Alexander recognized that. I think he adored her marching to her own beat, and I think he needed to see that one could choose a different path. She had a lot to offer him.
Honestly that doesn't seem bad.
If we were aquatinted with I'm previously and expect him to behave like Leaxana.
He previously tormented Beverly by telling her that she was embarrassing him with her thoughts, etc. maybe also have him say something to an adult female engineer or whomever (few women in the show)
It wouldn't be any worse that all
If the strange speculation that people derived from the episode the way it is.
Or are you implying that men are more likely to be child molesters than women?
Neelix took Naomi into the holodeck plenty of times and spent lots of time with her and no one was concerned.
I don't know if this episode would look different now. It's true that in the early 90's we were much more relaxed about who we let watch our children. Still, this is PG at the very worst. It's not like the Dick Van Dyke Show, which would never stand a chance today.
I don't know if this episode would look different now. It's true that in the early 90's we were much more relaxed about who we let watch our children. Still, this is PG at the very worst. It's not like the Dick Van Dyke Show, which would never stand a chance today.
Well, everything we ever do with kids is creepy by definition. Give them to more or less complete strangers to watch over while we go to work? Creepy. Cling onto them and hide them behind the doors of their home till the age of X? Creepy. Let them do whatever they wish? Creepy. Tell them what to do and how to live? Creeeeeepy.
Kids are prime controversy fodder regardless of circumstances, simply because we care. Which is creepy in itself. But it's not as if things would ever have been moving towards better or worse as such. It's just different shades of creepy, always with something for everybody to get the creeps about. The 1950s folks wouldn't approve of today any more than we approve of their days (reveals a quick poll). Substitute any decade or century, really.
For me personally, seeing TNG do The Eighties or to a degree The Nineties is what makes it scifi and alien and fun. Modern sensibilities just dilute the effect of these shows, which is why Trek is a dish best served cold and a bit modly...
Timo Saloniemi
Kids are prime controversy fodder regardless of circumstances, simply because we care. Which is creepy in itself. But it's not as if things would ever have been moving towards better or worse as such. It's just different shades of creepy, always with something for everybody to get the creeps about. The 1950s folks wouldn't approve of today any more than we approve of their days (reveals a quick poll). Substitute any decade or century, really.
For me personally, seeing TNG do The Eighties or to a degree The Nineties is what makes it scifi and alien and fun. Modern sensibilities just dilute the effect of these shows, which is why Trek is a dish best served cold and a bit modly...
Timo Saloniemi
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