Control and the Future

[Quantum21]

It's


It's stated in at the end of 'Such sweet sorrow' Starfleet made sure to completely eradicate what remained of Control in the 23rd century. It also stated in Season 4 after Zora was realised to be sentient, that Starfleet places limitations on their A.I. So they obviously learned something from having a homicidal A.I go rogue.

I suppose because there is evidence AI can go rogue on a massive scale that precautions should be taken but there is no inherent reason this should be so. I could also foresee benevolent or indifferent AI as possibilities.

Ultimately Starfleet does have a right to decide what is on its vessels and who/what can make decisions for them, but I would also hope they wouldn't assume negative AIs every time, same as they assumed genetic engineering would always be evil.

Luckily, both SNW and Discovery have both questioned these ideas with Una and Zora episodes. Picard on the other hand had some dumb, offhand dialogue about networking their ships being like the Borg...Huge face-palm.

 

[herofhyrule]

Ultimately Starfleet does have a right to decide what is on its vessels and who/what can make decisions for them, but I would also hope they wouldn't assume negative AIs every time, same as they assumed genetic engineering would always be evil.

I imagine Data played a part in rehabilitating the image of AI.

 

[XCV330]

I suppose because there is evidence AI can go rogue on a massive scale that precautions should be taken but there is no inherent reason this should be so. I could also foresee benevolent or indifferent AI as possibilities.

Ultimately Starfleet does have a right to decide what is on its vessels and who/what can make decisions for them, but I would also hope they wouldn't assume negative AIs every time, same as they assumed genetic engineering would always be evil.

Luckily, both SNW and Discovery have both questioned these ideas with Una and Zora episodes. Picard on the other hand had some dumb, offhand dialogue about networking their ships being like the Borg...Huge face-palm.

It would be a nice retcon way to explain why Federation computer technology is in some ways inferior to our own from TOS onward. They couldn't trust it. Even the idea of physical media chips, multiple PADDs etc could explain a culture that simply could not trust tech, though still having the power to create risky AI systems like holodecks. (which again makes sense in that whatever virtualized computing you used a holodeck for could be removed with a single command once you had the data needed). So from that point of view, Control led to something of a "Butlerian jihad" in Starfleet, to borrow from another franchise.

 

[Quantum21]

It would be a nice retcon way to explain why Federation computer technology is in some ways inferior to our own from TOS onward. They couldn't trust it. Even the idea of physical media chips, multiple PADDs etc could explain a culture that simply could not trust tech, though still having the power to create risky AI systems like holodecks. (which again makes sense in that whatever virtualized computing you used a holodeck for could be removed with a single command once you had the data needed). So from that point of view, Control led to something of a "Butlerian jihad" in Starfleet, to borrow from another franchise.

Yes, I've noted to myself before that the Federation is several centuries behind where they should be on this point. Aside from the obvious budget issues, Trek didn't touch on it that much. Humanistic solutions without a Bene Gesserit or Spacing Guild seem the solution.

I feel modern Trek is doing a better job of it though.

 

[XCV330]

I feel modern Trek is doing a better job of it though.

I agree. And I know it must be much harder to make a futuristic setting on tv and movies than simply writing, as you have to work with what you have, and what the audience can relate to. We can't really be accurate about the future, unless our name ends in Verne, anyway, and sometimes those retrofutures are cool and inspiring in their hopefulness.

We have to believe there's still a place for the human mind as people seem to be coding our replacements in every aspect.

 

[Quantum21]

I agree. And I know it must be much harder to make a futuristic setting on tv and movies than simply writing, as you have to work with what you have, and what the audience can relate to. We can't really be accurate about the future, unless our name ends in Verne, anyway, and sometimes those retrofutures are cool and inspiring in their hopefulness.

We have to believe there's still a place for the human mind as people seem to be coding our replacements in every aspect.

A co-existing peace would be ideal. Competitiveness would need to be roughly equal. So I think the enhanced people in Discovery might be a good start. We see that in a lot of other scifi. I could see myself intermingle with some steely beast but I'm not letting Musk touch my wetware!

 

[FredH]

But of course, the real world reason was that it had been decided to change the show's setting to the 32nd century in response to fan complaints, so they were going there no matter what.

There’s no way they went to the expense of changing their entire setting and physical set/costuming infrastructure because of “fan complaints”.

 

[Saul]

There’s no way they went to the expense of changing their entire setting and physical set/costuming infrastructure because of “fan complaints”.

I'm nearly sure some producer referenced that or at least made mention of "canon" getting in the way and the issue fans had with the changes made. I'm not saying that's the only reason though but I think something like that was mentioned. But even when they stayed in the 32nd century they still had uniform changes between seasons. The show has or had deep pockets.

 

[Quantum21]

I'm nearly sure some producer referenced that or at least made mention of "canon" getting in the way and the issue fans had with the changes made. I'm not saying that's the only reason though but I think something like that was mentioned. But even when they stayed in the 32nd century they still had uniform changes between seasons. The show has or had deep pockets.

I don't think it was the main reason they changed it, I think it was to distance themselves from Fuller, who was out of favor. Fan reaction was maybe 10% of the equation.

 

[fireproof78]

The show has or had deep pockets.

Had.

 

[The Wormhole]

There’s no way they went to the expense of changing their entire setting and physical set/costuming infrastructure because of “fan complaints”.

Then you clearly weren't paying attention to anything Kurtzman was saying during the second season. That entire season was a "fix canon" initiative in response to the fan complaints about the first season, up to and including having them move into the future.

This is common knowledge and has been since 2019.

 

[FredH]

Then you clearly weren't paying attention to anything Kurtzman was saying during the second season. That entire season was a "fix canon" initiative in response to the fan complaints about the first season, up to and including having them move into the future.

This is common knowledge and has been since 2019.

That’s great. Quote of him saying so, please?

 

[Tosk]

DSC "We gotta move this series into the future, being set before TOS is too limiting, it's way too hard to be a good show under these circumstances."

SNW "Huh. Seems easy enough to me."

 

[fireproof78]

DSC "We gotta move this series into the future, being set before TOS is too limiting, it's way too hard to be a good show under these circumstances."

SNW "Huh. Seems easy enough to me."

As long it's in a separate timeline, sure super easy.

 

[Quantum21]

DSC "We gotta move this series into the future, being set before TOS is too limiting, it's way too hard to be a good show under these circumstances."

SNW "Huh. Seems easy enough to me."

It was too limiting for a series trying to break new ground and test visual boundaries of the franchise, SNW as good as it is, isn't doing that.

 

[Tosk]

Nah, they just didn't want to give up doing "the entire galaxy is at stake" stories.

Edit: Kurtzman was open with the fact that the change came about so that they didn't have to worry about fitting the canon.

I also had experience working on the [J.J. Abrams] films where we were stuck with canonical problems. We knew how Kirk had died, and we wondered how we could put him in jeopardy to make it feel real. That’s what led us to go with an alternate timeline; suddenly we could tell the story in a very unpredictable way. That’s the same thought process that went into jumping 950 years into the future. We’re now completely free of canon, and we have a whole new universe to explore.

 

[Quantum21]

That’s great. Quote of him saying so, please?

Don't hold your breath.

 

[FredH]

Don't hold your breath.

Heh. I’m not.

 

[fireproof78]

Heh. I’m not.

Nah, they just didn't want to give up doing "the entire galaxy is at stake" stories.

Edit: Kurtzman was open with the fact that the change came about so that they didn't have to worry about fitting the canon.

 

[The Wormhole]

That’s great. Quote of him saying so, please?

Don't hold your breath.

Heh. I’m not.

Since y'all apparently have Tosk on Ignore:

I also had experience working on the [J.J. Abrams] films where we were stuck with canonical problems. We knew how Kirk had died, and we wondered how we could put him in jeopardy to make it feel real. That’s what led us to go with an alternate timeline; suddenly we could tell the story in a very unpredictable way. That’s the same thought process that went into jumping 950 years into the future. We’re now completely free of canon, and we have a whole new universe to explore.