Constitution, Miranda, and Constelation Class

[Kemaiku]

The only true "fingerprint" ships in the Trekverse ever seem to give is their warp signature, which can be read through cloaking devices, holographic overpainting, attempts at broadcasting a false signature over the top of it etc

Which is useless if the warp drive is disengaged, such as the crippled Stargazer.

 

[TheRoyalFamily]

For an "on the third hand" argument (this is, after all, both Star Trek and Halloween Hangover), it is a prominent feature in the Trek universe that certain starship designs are in common use across cultural borders. Officially, this sort of begins with "Heart of Glory" where the only way to tell a certain freighter for a Talarian vessel is to wait for her pennant paint to become visible. Anybody with a brush and some vacuum-proof paint could thus engage in "false flag" piracy - and anybody who ever navigated the spacelanes would know of the risk of such things, and be wary of approaching ships, even if these flew the Starfleet flag.

The way I see it, there are certain companies/governments that manufacture a bunch of ships that a whole lot of other groups buy from. It would make sense that you'd buy ships from someone with better or more efficient tech than you, unless there were serious security concerns (which probably wouldn't be an issue unless you were buying from Binars, or Romulans or the like). We know that there are arms dealers dealing with governments - that's how Quark's cousin got his moon, after all. If everyone made their own stuff, he'd be out of a job, or at least not be near as lucrative, only selling to relatively small pirate and merc groups. Plus, standardization means cheaper and more available maintenance, which would be important for freighters going all over several quadrants.

 

[Brainsucker]

just re-watching "Star Trek the Wrath of Khan" and I'm surprise that Spock said that Enterprise is actually got overpowered by Reliant. But looking at the ships' bodies, I can tell that the Enterprise is actually lack in weapon department, compared to her opposition, Reliant. I don't know why. Is it because Miranda Class newer than the Constitution Class or they are actually a warship.

 

[Timo]

The difference is rather slight, not enough to create a "warship vs. peaceship" contrast here. There could be completely obscure technological or political reasons for not installing aft torpedoes on the Enterprise, just like various obscure concerns dictated whether a WWII battleship would be built with 2+2+2+2 or 3+3+3 main guns, neither configuration being necessarily better or worse than the other.

Perhaps the Enterprise is a newer and more agile design and for that reason doesn't need rear torpedo tubes to cover her ass?

As for the torpedo tubes of the Constellation class, we see little evidence for their presence or absence in "The Battle", but OTOH dialogue insists that they are there. Quite possibly they could be found in their "proper" places at the junctions of the engine pylons, then, if we just could see there. When we do see a close-up of that part of the ship class in "Peak Performance", there is no dialogue to insist that the ship would be armed with torpedoes. Perhaps Starfleet faired over the torpedo tubes when it retired USS Hathaway?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[blssdwlf]

In addition to the Enterprise being possibly more maneuverable or at least faster it might say something that the torpedo pod and extra phasers are an add-on to the basic Reliant design.

Oh, as for "The Battle" we can see that there are no visible tubes ala Enterprise neck area on the Stargazer. I boosted the levels in the screencap so you can see that they are covered over, top and bottom. Her torpedo tubes were probable TOS-style, in the lower saucer.

 

[Timo]

That sort of resolution doesn't really allow us to distinguish between "looking normal", "covered over" and "replaced by sunflower-filled greenhouses"...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Forbin]

Plus one can always put the engines "on shifts" allowing one pair to 'rest', and thereby doubling the operational life of the pods. Very room ship it be.

There is a reference to this somewhere that when the warp drive is engaged so are all four engines, but the pairs alternate every so often taking over the majority of the propulsion, going back and forwards between them to extend engine life.

Posi-Traction!? All Wheel Drive!?!?

 

[blssdwlf]

That sort of resolution doesn't really allow us to distinguish between "looking normal", "covered over" and "replaced by sunflower-filled greenhouses"...

Timo Saloniemi

It's enough that we can't see the normal DARK spots associated with the torpedo tubes

 

[Timo]

...Or the normal BRIGHT spots to mark portholes.

In that violation of a screencap, e.g. the blue shuttlebay doors have lost their telltale hue, too. Were they absent from the Stargazer until she turned her flank toward the camera?

This is our absolute best view of the ship's bow, and the top torp deck area is in such shadow that darker central rectangles may be present just as well as absent:

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x09/thebattle_hd_149.jpg

Timo Saloniemi

 

[blssdwlf]

She was side illuminated, so the side shuttlebay door was washed out abit. However the torpedo parts at the pylons would've still been visible like the Reliant and Enterprise from the front.

You could argue that the Constellation class has her torpedo launchers shuttered. Otherwise, they're not visible in those locations leaving the saucer section. Since we see DS9 Mirandas fire from the bottom saucer are torpedoes it isn't unheard of to have them there, IMHO.

 

[Timo]

Remind me, where do we see this torpedo-firing Miranda? There's phaser fire from an unlikely ventral location in "Emissary", plus dialogue to indicate that the ship in question has forward torpedo bays despite lacking a dorsal pod, but no sign of torpedo firing. There are also surprising ventral torpedoes from a Nebula in ST:FC, perhaps comparable to the sight of a Miranda firing downwards. But an actual firing from the dorsal side of a Miranda...?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[blssdwlf]

@Timo - I just reviewed my notes and misremembered. AFAIK, there were no Reliant's to fire torpedoes in DS9. That just leaves only the TOS Enterprise with saucer torpedo launchers.

 

[Kemaiku]

Plus one can always put the engines "on shifts" allowing one pair to 'rest', and thereby doubling the operational life of the pods. Very room ship it be.

There is a reference to this somewhere that when the warp drive is engaged so are all four engines, but the pairs alternate every so often taking over the majority of the propulsion, going back and forwards between them to extend engine life.

Posi-Traction!? All Wheel Drive!?!?

Well I have at least remembered that it's from The Lost Era: The Buried Age, in the first few pages, just need to charge my kindle and get the exact quote.

 

[Saturn0660]

Simple
Constitution = Cruiser

Miranda = Frigate

Constellation = Destroyer

 

[Ronald Held]

That was succinct.

 

[BK613]

...Or the normal BRIGHT spots to mark portholes.

In that violation of a screencap, e.g. the blue shuttlebay doors have lost their telltale hue, too. Were they absent from the Stargazer until she turned her flank toward the camera?

This is our absolute best view of the ship's bow, and the top torp deck area is in such shadow that darker central rectangles may be present just as well as absent:

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x09/thebattle_hd_149.jpg

Timo Saloniemi

this is a better-lit image

http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x09/thebattle_hd_429.jpg
Doesn't look like there is any photon hardware but as blssdwlf said, could be doors. Could be that Constellations had them when they were new but the launcher guts were removed as the tech obsolesced and the space repurposed.
​

 

[throwback]

We know from the episode, "The Battle", that the Stargazer had fired six photon torpedoes. Maybe the launcher bay had doors that would open when the torps were fired?

 

[blssdwlf]

Awesome find BK613. Yeah there really are two options:

1. The launchers are in the saucer, like the TOS Enterprise or
2. The launchers are where the TMP Enterprise-like structures are and they have doors covering them. They seem narrower than the TMP Enterprise launcher section though...

 

[BK613]

Awesome find BK613. Yeah there really are two options:

1. The launchers are in the saucer, like the TOS Enterprise or
2. The launchers are where the TMP Enterprise-like structures are and they have doors covering them. They seem narrower than the TMP Enterprise launcher section though...

^^ 3. The replacement torp launchers are those nifty little cylinders on the crossbars right above/below the TMP ones. (forgot about the 6 torps fired in "The Battle" )

 

[Timo]

There are also those small squarish fixtures at the upper corners of the bow shuttlebay - properly visible basically only in that Picard Maneuver image. They look like phaser emitters, but they aren't painted yellow. Proper size for a torp tube..

Timo Saloniemi