constitution class?

[Chaos Descending]

Constitution Class . . . is that something you have to pass to become a citizen?

Should be required for citizenship.

Should be required for public office too.

 

[Chaos Descending]

Some of you need to turn the computer off and go outside and enjoy the summer.

I'm just saying, it's hard for me to dig that some of you are getting so excited over a fictional government structure in a TV show.

I love Star Trek as much as the next guy, but come on!

EDIT: Forgive me for the back-to-back posts.

 

[robjkay]

Some of you need to turn the computer off and go outside and enjoy the summer.

I'm just saying, it's hard for me to dig that some of you are getting so excited over a fictional government structure in a TV show.

I love Star Trek as much as the next guy, but come on!

EDIT: Forgive me for the back-to-back posts.

I do get outside when the sun decides to come out!

True some people get over excited about some things, but hey at time thats the fun of a discussion!

 

[robjkay]

I'm going to have to repeat myself, AGAIN, I see.

Well the only reason you have had to repeat yourself AGAIN, is because so far you have NOT shown anything that supports what you have said!

 

[3D Master]

Well the only reason you have had to repeat yourself AGAIN, is because so far you have NOT shown anything that supports what you have said!

Oh, I have, not only have I shown things that support what I said, I've PROVEN what I've said. You just refuse to accept it.

 

[robjkay]

Well the only reason you have had to repeat yourself AGAIN, is because so far you have NOT shown anything that supports what you have said!

Oh, I have, not only have I shown things that support what I said, I've PROVEN what I've said. You just refuse to accept it.

Nope, you have only chosen to speculate about something that is not there, insisting on out-of-this-universe explanations. Hence why everyone has constantly asked you for canon evidence to back up your claims. Which so far you have not provided, which you refused to provide and the only reason this is. Is because there is no such canon evidence that backs up any of your so-called claims, speculation and out-of-this-universe explanations is not acceptable hence why I and others refuse to accept it.

On the other side myself and others have provided canon evidence of which you refuse to accept. It would seem you, yourself only pick and choose on what is acceptable and what is not which is not part of a debate.

So no you have not SHOWN or PROVEN anything being in Journey to Babel there in nothing in this episode that shows or says that there was no Federation government and no Federation president.

 

[Red Ranger]

Use of American names for ship classes does bring up a point about how American-oriented TOS was, but hey, it was made by Americans! And they did have a Potemkin, a Russian ship name, in The Ultimate Computer.

they also used Excalibur and Exeter...

Absolutely correct! Thanks for the reminder, buddy. -- RR

 

[Red Ranger]

Well the only reason you have had to repeat yourself AGAIN, is because so far you have NOT shown anything that supports what you have said!

Oh, I have, not only have I shown things that support what I said, I've PROVEN what I've said. You just refuse to accept it.

Nope, you have only chosen to speculate about something that is not there, insisting on out-of-this-universe explanations. Hence why everyone has constantly asked you for canon evidence to back up your claims. Which so far you have not provided, which you refused to provide and the only reason this is. Is because there is no such canon evidence that backs up any of your so-called claims, speculation and out-of-this-universe explanations is not acceptable hence why I and others refuse to accept it.

On the other side myself and others have provided canon evidence of which you refuse to accept. It would seem you, yourself only pick and choose on what is acceptable and what is not which is not part of a debate.

So no you have not SHOWN or PROVEN anything being in Journey to Babel there in nothing in this episode that shows or says that there was no Federation government and no Federation president.

Methinks 3DMaster is a libertarian run amok! -- RR

 

[3D Master]

Well the only reason you have had to repeat yourself AGAIN, is because so far you have NOT shown anything that supports what you have said!

Oh, I have, not only have I shown things that support what I said, I've PROVEN what I've said. You just refuse to accept it.

Nope, you have only chosen to speculate about something that is not there, insisting on out-of-this-universe explanations. Hence why everyone has constantly asked you for canon evidence to back up your claims. Which so far you have not provided, which you refused to provide and the only reason this is. Is because there is no such canon evidence that backs up any of your so-called claims, speculation and out-of-this-universe explanations is not acceptable hence why I and others refuse to accept it.

On the other side myself and others have provided canon evidence of which you refuse to accept. It would seem you, yourself only pick and choose on what is acceptable and what is not which is not part of a debate.

So no you have not SHOWN or PROVEN anything being in Journey to Babel there in nothing in this episode that shows or says that there was no Federation government and no Federation president.

Oh, but I have. And I've already told you, you refuse to accept anything unless it's literally spelled out fore you in an episode word for word. It's a quite a miracle you accept that warp speed is faster than light, as it was never stated it is faster than light. We know it's faster than light through "out-of-this-universe speculation" and proof through use of logic. But, it seems, when it contradicts your personal view of things, "out-of-this-universe speculation" and proof through use of logic is unacceptable, but when your personal view is at stake, it's suddenly a-ok.

 

[Timo]

It would help if you even this once bothered to reiterate your so-called facts, or even your conclusions, as the unfortunate fact is that some 90% of any thread featuring your input consists of content-free reiteration of your reiterations instead. It is hellishly difficult to trace down the actual content of the dialogue or monologue from such a mess.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Red Ranger]

It would help if you even this once bothered to reiterate your so-called facts, or even your conclusions, as the unfortunate fact is that some 90% of any thread featuring your input consists of content-free reiteration of your reiterations instead. It is hellishly difficult to trace down the actual content of the dialogue or monologue from such a mess.

Timo Saloniemi

Agreed. Frankly, those interested in this topic should create a new one and fight it out there. Since you're the most adamant about your conclusions, 3D Master, why don't you just create a new thread and make your argument there for your libertarian fantasy world. Just saying! -- RR

 

[robjkay]

Oh, I have, not only have I shown things that support what I said, I've PROVEN what I've said. You just refuse to accept it.

Nope, you have only chosen to speculate about something that is not there, insisting on out-of-this-universe explanations. Hence why everyone has constantly asked you for canon evidence to back up your claims. Which so far you have not provided, which you refused to provide and the only reason this is. Is because there is no such canon evidence that backs up any of your so-called claims, speculation and out-of-this-universe explanations is not acceptable hence why I and others refuse to accept it.

On the other side myself and others have provided canon evidence of which you refuse to accept. It would seem you, yourself only pick and choose on what is acceptable and what is not which is not part of a debate.

So no you have not SHOWN or PROVEN anything being in Journey to Babel there in nothing in this episode that shows or says that there was no Federation government and no Federation president.

Oh, but I have. And I've already told you, you refuse to accept anything unless it's literally spelled out fore you in an episode word for word. It's a quite a miracle you accept that warp speed is faster than light, as it was never stated it is faster than light. We know it's faster than light through "out-of-this-universe speculation" and proof through use of logic. But, it seems, when it contradicts your personal view of things, "out-of-this-universe speculation" and proof through use of logic is unacceptable, but when your personal view is at stake, it's suddenly a-ok.

Oh but you haven't. But your correct if it has not been as you say "literally spelled out" then it is not canon which means your simply speculating! Even when something is not "literally spelled out" there are things called common sense explanations or in-this-universe explanations which helps to answer something. But you do not even do that, being you pick and choose what you deem correct, you pick out-of-this-universe explanations to explain all your odd so-called claims which in the end make very little sense.

You seem to forget I am not the one who is presenting my personal views, speculation, so-called logic or what ever else being you have! So far I have presented canon evidence which simples beats out personal views, out-of-this-universe speculation, or someones so-called logic which is something you seem to ignore. In the end the only person's personal view that is at stake is 3D Master's!

 

[captcalhoun]

warp speed was stated to be faster than light in, IIRC, TVH and certainly in FC.


so STFU!

 

[3D Master]

It would help if you even this once bothered to reiterate your so-called facts, or even your conclusions, as the unfortunate fact is that some 90% of any thread featuring your input consists of content-free reiteration of your reiterations instead. It is hellishly difficult to trace down the actual content of the dialogue or monologue from such a mess.

I have already reiterated it a 1000 time over, if you still don't get it, you'll never get it - or rather refuse to get it. And if you want to read the friggin dialogue AGAIN, all you have to do is go a page or two back in the thread. What is posted doesn't just disappear. But then, maybe I'm the only one with a memory that lasts more than a few hours and the functional grey matter to click one of those little numbers above and below the content.

Oh but you haven't. But your correct if it has not been as you say "literally spelled out" then it is not canon

Yeah, I already figured that, I said that before - dialogue whores, aka super narrow demands; if it's not literally spoken, it didn't happen, even if someone who actually analyzes what is said and applies some logic will come to the result.

Or in short; it's miraculous you accept warp is faster than light.

which means your simply speculating!

Nope, I am not. There is speculating, which pulling things out of thin air, and then there's logical deduction. Where you have data and you simply apply logic. I'm doing the latter, not the former.

Even when something is not "literally spelled out" there are things called common sense explanations or in-this-universe explanations which helps to answer something. But you do not even do that, being you pick and choose what you deem correct, you pick out-of-this-universe explanations to explain all your odd so-called claims which in the end make very little sense.

Eh, wrong, which is pretty damn amazing why you keep saying that. It seems you're not only a dialogue whore, you also have selective memory. You simply forget, or skip entire explanations, and then claim something completely different from what actually happened. But, eh, keep living in your delusions.

You seem to forget I am not the one who is presenting my personal views, speculation, so-called logic or what ever else being you have! So far I have presented canon evidence which simples beats out personal views, out-of-this-universe speculation, or someones so-called logic which is something you seem to ignore. In the end the only person's personal view that is at stake is 3D Master's!

I'M not presenting my personal views, YOU are. You're personal view is that Enterprise had no continuity violations, aka any claim made in other shows eliminates entire episodes worth of information from TOS, as stuff you can ignore. ME, I, actually simply take the canon of an episode and show you what it said, THAT is NOT a personal view, that is what's in an episode. You're the one who desperately cling to your personal views and can't accept it as false to the point of demanding the ridiculous concept that if it is not literally word for word spoken it didn't happen (aka, warp speed is not faster than light - indeed there is more spoken evidence to support warp speed being less than the speed of light than faster), that there are no continuity violations and so refuse to accept what a TOS episode says about things. That's not my personal view, that's yours.

Agreed. Frankly, those interested in this topic should create a new one and fight it out there. Since you're the most adamant about your conclusions, 3D Master, why don't you just create a new thread and make your argument there for your libertarian fantasy world. Just saying! -- RR

Beyond the idiotic concept of claiming I'm making a libertarian fantasy world, when no libertarian I know of has an interest in abolishing a government and a president, I must remember to tell my friends, that we live in a libertarian fantasy world, because of the UN.

warp speed was stated to be faster than light in, IIRC, TVH and certainly in FC.

Oh, post the proof! Where's the dialogue!

 

[robjkay]

I'M not presenting my personal views, YOU are. You're personal view is that Enterprise had no continuity violations, aka any claim made in other shows eliminates entire episodes worth of information from TOS, as stuff you can ignore. ME, I, actually simply take the canon of an episode and show you what it said, THAT is NOT a personal view, that is what's in an episode. You're the one who desperately cling to your personal views and can't accept it as false to the point of demanding the ridiculous concept that if it is not literally word for word spoken it didn't happen (aka, warp speed is not faster than light - indeed there is more spoken evidence to support warp speed being less than the speed of light than faster), that there are no continuity violations and so refuse to accept what a TOS episode says about things. That's not my personal view, that's yours.

Oh YES you have only presented your personal views being so far you have not presented any information that shows; 1. That there was no Federation government. 2. That there was no Federation president before and sometime after the episode of Journey to Babel.

Yes you have shown partial script from this episode which your calling proof or canon, but nothing of which you have shown does not prove anything. So what 3D Master does is this "I am using logic", and "I am able to comprehend what they meant", "that I disregard sentence here and there so I can show a very realistic model of the Federation emergence, and does not require the ridiculous concept of "poof" there's the Federation."..... Hmm... It sure sounds like a personal view which you just denied!!!

Now what I have presented is; (Ent: "In a Mirror, Darkly, Part 2) That Capt Archer's profile was shown on a computer screen saying that he was the 5th president of the United Federation of Planets. (Star Trek Generations) Picard had a family album with a news article titled "Its Federation Day" saying that Thomas Vanderbilt was the 1st Federation President, that there was a Federation Council (government). (TOS: "Amok Time") Kirk states that TPau was the only person to turn down a seat on the Federation Coucil. Here I have presented Canon information which is not as you have said my personal views. The only thing thats not entirely canon is Picard family album being it was not readable in ST: Generations, but it is evidence non the less!

3D Master, do you see the difference? Where are my so-called personal views that I am so desperately clinging to? It would seem it is the other way being your the one who is interpreting what a sentence means (dialogue) and not what was actually stated which again is a personal view and not canon. The only thing I have done is simply show the exact dialogue from a episode and movie which states there was (1) a Federation President before Journey to Babel and (2) that there was a Federation Government at the time of Journey to babel. This not a personal view it is canon fact, which is something you have so far not shown.

Yes I might be as you called it a "dialogue whore", but you are a "point-things-out-that-are-not-there whore" & are a "selective-hearing-only whore".

Oh yeah in (Star Trek First Contact) Riker states; Doctor, tomorrow morning when they detect the warp signature from your ship and realise that humans have discovered how to travel faster than light, they decide to alter their course and make first contact with Earth, right here.

 

[captcalhoun]

dude, give it up, this small-minded fool is obviously not going to be swayed by your arguements, or indeed ANY arguements. you might as well stop posting and then the thread'll die and go away.

 

[StolenThunder]

^ Pray tell, what did that comment add to the discussion?

Anyway, we are well off topic and I expect there's no resolution to this argument in sight.

Thread closed. Come back and fight it out another day.