Conspiracy... guy in a skirt?

[peacetrainann]

Hi all!

I'm a n00b on the site, but have been watching Star Trek as long as I can remember. Anyways, I'm watching Conspiracy at the moment and something that I didn't notice before took me off guard. Has anyone else seen this? A guy in the background, in a corridor, wearing a dress uniform? Not even the official dress that officers wear when an important visitor is arriving on the ship, but a full-blown dress, meant for a girl!

-Ann

 

[Mike Have-Not]

It's known as a "skant" uniform.

The idea was to show more equality betwixt the sexes is the 24th century.

 

[TheLobes]

Theres a more noticable skant in 'Encounter at Farpoint'. Im surprised Janeway didnt make Harry Kim wear a skant.

 

[Christopher]

It's known as a "skant" uniform.

The idea was to show more equality betwixt the sexes is the 24th century.

Or simply to show, realistically, that fashions evolve over time rather than being some kind of universal constant.

 

[WillsBabe]

We need a sticky.

 

[C.E. Evans]

What comes around, goes around

 

[Therin of Andor]

but a full-blown dress, meant for a girl!

Actually, the "skant" takes its name from "skirt" and "pants". Behind the front flap of material, the uniform was actually a divided garment like modern-day culottes. It was no more revealing that the shorts worn by the male crew of the Pacific Princess in "The Love Boat".

Even the mini skirt uniform worn in TOS had one wrapped leg, and was not a true skirt either.

 

[Christopher]

It is so parochial to assume that men can only wear pants and nothing else. What about togas, saris, kimonos, kilts, dhotis, etc.? For huge swaths of human history, in many cultures around the world, it has been routine for civilized men to wear loose or wrapped garments.

If anything, most TV and film SF is way, way too conservative about future fashions. Odds are, people hundreds of years from now will be wearing fashions that seem extremely strange to our eyes, and will probably look back on our fashions with the same scorn and bewilderment we direct at powdered wigs and codpieces. I say William Ware Theiss deserves praise for trying to move beyond the wardrobe conventions of our narrow sliver of history, to acknowledge that assumptions would change in the future.

 

[Capt_Pickirk]

Didn't we have this thread already?? I'm pretty sure we did.

Edit: Yeah

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=132382

Sigh, I'll say it again, it's got nothing to do with progressive thought, it's got nothing to with "enlightenment" - or lack of - it all boils down to one simple thing:

It's a rubbish uniform.

It's a rubbish uniform that looks rubbish on both men and women.

I believe most Star Trek fans are open-minded and free of prejudice and simply judge the TNG skant on one criterion - it's, well, rubbish.

I think most were etremely thankful it disappeared rapidly.

The only problem I have with this particular argument is that the only example that's consistently cited is a man.

If the womens' version was brought up as frequently, your argument would IMO have more credibility.

Ta da. Happy now?

It still sucks.

 

[Forbin]

If anything, most TV and film SF is way, way too conservative about future fashions. Odds are, people hundreds of years from now will be wearing fashions that seem extremely strange to our eyes, and will probably look back on our fashions with the same scorn and bewilderment we direct at powdered wigs and codpieces.

Just watch the 1979 Buck Rogers series!

 

[RAMA]

good grief, not this subject again

 

[Takeru]

... but a full-blown dress, meant for a girl!

It's not a dress and it's not meant for a girl.

 

[Dream]

They should have made everyone wear pants.

 

[FalTorPan]

Even the mini skirt uniform worn in TOS had one wrapped leg, and was not a true skirt either.

I'm not trying to be a perv, but I don't see a wrapped leg in any of these images...

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x05hd/theenemywithinhd252.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x05hd/theenemywithinhd261.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x05hd/theenemywithinhd262.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x09hd/daggerofthemindhd365.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x09hd/daggerofthemindhd406.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x09hd/daggerofthemindhd552.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x09hd/daggerofthemindhd553.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x09hd/daggerofthemindhd579.jpg
http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x09/daggerofthemind251.jpg

 

[Therin of Andor]

I'm not trying to be a perv, but I don't see a wrapped leg in any of these images...http://tos.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/1x09/daggerofthemind251.jpg

I'm not seeing enough in any of those pics to point out which leg is wrapped. I'm just saying that I've heard Grace Lee Whitney explain how the skirt fitted and how the wrapped thigh prevented the outfit from fully riding up to expose all.

 

[TheLobes]

My opinion with the skant was that if youre going to have this point about how the fashions of the future are going to be nonjudgemental and open, then actually make the freakin point. Merely shunting it to the back of the room is kind of cowardly. More importantly it robs the idea of its creative merit because its apparent that the writers themselves are not taking this idea seriously.

I know its different, but if you look at Uhura in TOS, she was right on the bridge, she served an important function within the ship and she gave us the first interracial kiss. It would have been lame and self-defeating just to put some black character in the background.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

The skant is, IMHO, proof that Gene was losing it big-time in his final association with Trek. Remember, this is the same man who - way back in the days of TMP - would think that everyone would live underground, there would be "New Humans" who walked around naked all the time, and who thought that Kirk's mother needed a "love instructor". And if there is any further doubt, do two things: 1) remember the concept of the "ship's counselor" from TNG, and who do you think thought of that; and 2) more importantly, read the TMP novelization. If you can do that and not wet your pants, then you are not human.

 

[Basill]

Even the mini skirt uniform worn in TOS had one wrapped leg, and was not a true skirt either.

I'm not trying to be a perv, but I don't see a wrapped leg in any of these images...

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x05hd/theenemywithinhd252.jpg

Hell, you can see it in the first image you posted. There's a portion of the skirt that runs right up into her crotch essentially wrapping her right leg. Almost looks like a G-String.

 

[TheLobes]

The skant is, IMHO, proof that Gene was losing it big-time in his final association with Trek. Remember, this is the same man who - way back in the days of TMP - would think that everyone would live underground, there would be "New Humans" who walked around naked all the time, and who thought that Kirk's mother needed a "love instructor". And if there is any further doubt, do two things: 1) remember the concept of the "ship's counselor" from TNG, and who do you think thought of that; and 2) more importantly, read the TMP novelization. If you can do that and not wet your pants, then you are not human.

3) Wesley Crusher. People who disliked DS9 for moving away from Gene's vision of the future should seriously consider that Wesley was part of that vision.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Merely shunting it to the back of the room is kind of cowardly. More importantly it robs the idea of its creative merit because its apparent that the writers themselves are not taking this idea seriously.

They had Troi in the skant throughout "Farpoint", several sightings of male crew - and Tasha wears one in the final scene.

The general reactions were not favourable, even for the women, so the uniform style was only briefly seen in the rest of Season One. Had Troi stayed in her skant, you can bet we would have seen Riker in one - probably by the filming of "Angel One", where they did take the opportunity to show that Riker wasn't scared of unusual fashions.

3) Wesley Crusher. People who disliked DS9 for moving away from Gene's vision of the future should seriously consider that Wesley was part of that vision.

Wesley - originally Lesley, a girl - was suggested by David Gerrold, IIRC. And Wesley/Wil Wheaton received more fan mail in Season One than any other character. He was responsible for drawing in a large demographic of young people, and lots of free publicity in the teen mags of the day, something DS9, VOY and ENT were never able to do.