Conference Table and Independent Display Screens

[nonbelligerency]

I've watched TOS my whole life, and random questions come into my head from time to time.

Regarding the personal display screens. ie in the conference room, where there are 3 screens shaped in a triangular facing fashion, or in personal quarters- a single screen... did they have the technology in the 60s to actually route video output to those? Or was the video placed there in post? They are pretty convincing.

 

[Melakon]

The moving images were matted in. Film frame rates were 24 frames per second, video at 30fps, which is why actual images from a tv back then seem to have rolling lines on film.

 

[nonbelligerency]

Thanks for the info. Do you think the actors had a person off screen giving them the lines spoken by the other person in the video conversation so the timing and response intonation sounded right? Since in the movies/TV audio is recorded separately, an off camera assistant's voice could be muted.

 

[Melakon]

The script supervisor would usually read the cue lines in that type of situation. In TOS out-takes, you can hear a man delivering Uhura's lines from a communicator.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

I've watched TOS my whole life, and random questions come into my head from time to time.

Regarding the personal display screens. ie in the conference room, where there are 3 screens shaped in a triangular facing fashion, or in personal quarters- a single screen... did they have the technology in the 60s to actually route video output to those? Or was the video placed there in post? They are pretty convincing.

How can you watch TOS your whole life and call it the "conference room"? I'll bet that along with TOS, you are also (mainly?) a TNG fan.

Regarding the matte shots, sometimes when a tabletop monitor is in use, you can see the plain white screen reflected in the table. The most glaring example is in WNM:

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x03hd/wherenomanhasgonebeforehd012.jpg

I wish they had fixed it in TOS-R, but it would have been difficult on their tight schedule.

In the TNG conference room when the ship is at warp, you can see the animated stars whipping by out the window, and they're reflected in the table. That's pretty cool.

 

[Maurice]

...
I wish they had fixed it in TOS-R, but it would have been difficult on their tight schedule.

Given that I think nothing passes over where the reflection would be you could do it in about five minutes in most video editing tools.

 

[scotpens]

You can tell that the images on the Enterprise's small display screens are mattes rather than real video because the screens are flat. CRT TV monitors back then had a considerably curved front and rounded corners.

Rear-projection was also (rarely) used, notably for the bridge main viewscreen in "Spock's Brain."

The moving images were matted in. Film frame rates were 24 frames per second, video at 30fps, which is why actual images from a tv back then seem to have rolling lines on film.

Fantastic Voyage (1966) used actual TV monitors on-camera.

IIRC, L.B. Abbott's book Special Effects - Wire, Tape And Rubber Band Style explained how the synchronization was accomplished. Unfortunately, I no longer own a copy of the book.

How can you watch TOS your whole life and call it the "conference room"? I'll bet that along with TOS, you are also (mainly?) a TNG fan.

I'll bet he calls landing parties "away teams"!

 

[Maurice]

There are video playback systems designed to sync with motion picture cameras. You see them all over the Enterprise bridge in TWOK and TSFS. and shows like Space: 1999.

 

[Metryq]

IIRC, L.B. Abbott's book Special Effects - Wire, Tape And Rubber Band Style explained how the synchronization was accomplished.

A multi-camera video system often uses "genlock," a composite signal that matches up the timing of the various pulses that make up a video picture. Without that synchronization, switching from one camera to another would cause a "frame roll" as the system locked to the new camera.

That is, cameras generate a video signal, and a picture monitor will "slave" itself to the signal coming in. With suitable circuitry (genlock), a camera can be made to slave itself to the timing of an incoming signal. On a movie set, the pulses from the film camera's motor were used as the genlock signal.

(To throw even more techobabble into it, this method was restricted to the use of black & white video systems, since the color signals of more advanced video systems would not lock so easily. The later development of Time Base Correctors, or TBCs, and then frame synchronizers made the use of color video displays possible on a movie set. There are various other methods involving the angle of the shutter on the camera, and even 24 fps video systems, like that used in 2010: THE YEAR WE MAKE CONTACT, the sequel to 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY. All the "video displays" in 2001 were rear-projected.)

 

[Melakon]

Fantastic Voyage (1966) used actual TV monitors on-camera.

IIRC, L.B. Abbott's book Special Effects - Wire, Tape And Rubber Band Style explained how the synchronization was accomplished. Unfortunately, I no longer own a copy of the book.

Yeah, I know those existed, but were probably too expensive for Star Trek so didn't go into synchronization. And the "z" key and others are so hard to strike on this keyboard, my fingertips are getting blisters.

 

[MarsWeeps]

Regarding the matte shots, sometimes when a tabletop monitor is in use, you can see the plain white screen reflected in the table. The most glaring example is in WNM:

http://tos.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x03hd/

One thing I've always wondered...throughout the series we see people communicating visually using the monitors but where exactly are the cameras? In the picture you posted I suppose you could say Kelso was looking at the main viewscreen (at an angle) which had an imbedded camera so Kirk & Spock would see him but I seem to remember other scenes in the series that made me wonder where the hidden camera was as well as the 2nd monitor that allowed both parties to view each other.

Where is Kelso viewing Kirk/Spock?

 

[Warped9]

TOS depicted a far future where a lot of technology wasn't explained. But today we have very small and unobtrusive cameras all over the place. To that end there could be such small cameras all over the ship to allow for the visual pickups we see throughout the series.

 

[Myko]

It's possible the ship's internal sensors can record 3D data of everything that's happening and project that data on the monitors. This could also explain the fancy records shown in Court Martial, which can zoom and change angles.

 

[Metryq]

This could also explain the fancy records shown in Court Martial, which can zoom and change angles.

But it doesn't explain the dramatic sense of timing the video system has for zooming in or out on cue... like a written journal saying, "Oh no! The creatures have broken in! They're coming closer—Arrrgh!"

(This is actually a common problem in many productions where a clip not intended for use as a video phone, binoculars, etc. gets drafted for such a process shot. "Hey, how are those binoculars zooming in and out and cutting from shot to shot?")

I know, I know—"There must be an in-universe explanation for everything." Right?

 

[Michael]

...
I wish they had fixed it in TOS-R, but it would have been difficult on their tight schedule.

Given that I think nothing passes over where the reflection would be you could do it in about five minutes in most video editing tools.

While it certainly didn't take me – i.e. someone who's still learning how to use video editing software – only five minutes to make, it's obviously doable with very little effort: Here.

 

[MGagen]

And here's my static version showing Kirk and Spock watching Spongebob's Wrath of Kahn...

 

[plynch]

I don't know how doable all this technology stuff is. But Kirk's collar SURE IS GREEN in that scene!

 

[Avro Arrow]

One thing I've always wondered...throughout the series we see people communicating visually using the monitors but where exactly are the cameras? In the picture you posted I suppose you could say Kelso was looking at the main viewscreen (at an angle) which had an imbedded camera so Kirk & Spock would see him but I seem to remember other scenes in the series that made me wonder where the hidden camera was as well as the 2nd monitor that allowed both parties to view each other.

Yeah, especially since whenever they contact Uhura's station, she's deliberately looking into the pickup, but it's apparently not in her console as you would think, since the console is always behind her. It would have looked more "realistic" to see the bridge behind her, but I understand that it's much easier for the production team to set up the shot the way they've done it.

Example from "Journey to Babel"

Maybe the pickup is in the captain's chair? It just seems odd that she'd have to turn completely away from her controls whenever someone wanted visual communication. (Although it is rife for parody, somewhere! )

 

[spockboy]

Regarding the matte shots, sometimes when a tabletop monitor is in use, you can see the plain white screen reflected in the table. The most glaring example is in

I wish they had fixed it in TOS-R, but it would have been difficult on their tight schedule.

I'm sorry but I'm calling BS on this one
What was required is laughably easy. I did it in 14 minutes in Sony Vegas (HD video editor software) You simply cut out a mask of the screen, put in a track above, flip it upside down, blur it, and you're done. I added 2 extra blur tracks to finesse it. The initial space/ pull away shot would have been easy with the tracking effects you can find in After Effects or Mocha. Perhaps another 15 minutes?

I blame CBS/Paramount for being so cheap about a franchise that has them made billions of dollars and influenced culture and technology.


Sorry M. Didn't see your earlier post. Great video on Vimeo BTW. Well done!

 

[Timo]

But it doesn't explain the dramatic sense of timing the video system has for zooming in or out on cue... like a written journal saying, "Oh no! The creatures have broken in! They're coming closer—Arrrgh!"

Surely the cameras of that era know what they are shooting - image recognition would almost certainly be built in. Programming a "dramatic editor" for the material ought to be trivial, and it would have many uses: keeping the focus on important things when the material is realtime, but also creating a desired impression if the material is replayed for a purpose. Say, in a court of inquiry session wishing to present a good case against a certain individual.

As for where the pickup for the imagery is, I'd say the screen itself. Each element of the screen would be a two-way image processor: both a camera pixel and a screen pixel, at the same time or alternately. Why skimp on your light-receiving area? Lensless optics would be doable, if not with today's, then next week's technology at least, and the utterly flat physical structure would have its advantages.

In addition to having screens that double as cameras (and no doubt as speakers as well - why bother with a separate sound-producing membrane when your image surface already can be made flexible and controllable enough?), the ship most probably has all-encompassing, 3D sensing and recording systems that can reproduce imagery at an arbitrary angle. We see plenty of examples of images obtained from points in space where there cannot possibly be a lens or a physical camera (say, next to the shuttle in ST5:TFF), as well as of cameras placed where no imagery could possibly be obtained (say, the thing Scotty bolts onto the wall of the chapel in "Balance of Terror" - if that were an optical camera, it could see nothing of use).

Timo Saloniemi