Concerning the Articles of the Federation

[Rush Limborg]

Now, I accept that the US is considered, as the Patriot's Creed states, "a Democracy in a Republic"--or, as you assert, a "liberal democracy". But it is not a "democracy", per se.

It took me a couple of minutes to figure out what you were talking about. The "Patriot's Creeds" I can find online are rather reactionary.

You're referring to "The American's Creed," which is the official creed of the United States and was written by William Tyler Page.

Yes, I was. But the book I learned it from labeled it "The Patriot's Creed."

(Amazingly enough, the bloody thing ALSO labels the US...a Nation.)

 

[Sci]

Now, I accept that the US is considered, as the Patriot's Creed states, "a Democracy in a Republic"--or, as you assert, a "liberal democracy". But it is not a "democracy", per se.

It took me a couple of minutes to figure out what you were talking about. The "Patriot's Creeds" I can find online are rather reactionary.

You're referring to "The American's Creed," which is the official creed of the United States and was written by William Tyler Page.

Yes, I was. But the book I learned it from labeled it "The Patriot's Creed."

Rush, I want to make sure you understand that I don't mean this as an insult or an attack. I really don't.

But, for all your enthusiasm for the study of political science, for all that you say you're getting a Bachelor's degree in poli sci, there are some very fundamental gaps and inaccuracies in your education there. You'd never heard of the Pentagon Papers, for instance, and you weren't familiar with the term "liberal democracy" (which is an elementary term you should have learned in your first semester of studying poli sci). And now this.

I really think that you should pause and consider that maybe a fair number of the books and other sources you use are not reliable.

 

[Rush Limborg]

It took me a couple of minutes to figure out what you were talking about. The "Patriot's Creeds" I can find online are rather reactionary.

You're referring to "The American's Creed," which is the official creed of the United States and was written by William Tyler Page.

Yes, I was. But the book I learned it from labeled it "The Patriot's Creed."

Rush, I want to make sure you understand that I don't mean this as an insult or an attack. I really don't.

But, for all your enthusiasm for the study of political science, for all that you say you're getting a Bachelor's degree in poli sci, there are some very fundamental gaps and inaccuracies in your education there. You'd never heard of the Pentagon Papers, for instance, and you weren't familiar with the term "liberal democracy" (which is an elementary term you should have learned in your first semester of studying poli sci). And now this.

I really think that you should pause and consider that maybe a fair number of the books and other sources you use are not reliable.

Sci...quite frankly...I have only recently transfered my major to Political Science. So I think you can understand my "ignorance" in such matters.

Also...I'm sure you yourself have read...less than relaiable sources as well--only to, of course, have this bias corrected in time. As I have.

Understand...I am not insulting you, either, in any manner whatsoever. However...I recall in the previous debate of ours you mentioned, your quoting the Huffington Post as a reliable source, even though it is a blog.

The point is, our respective paths of study (indeed, the university I attend allows one to select classes from vatious catergories of Political Science, and the classes I choose are as a means to an end, not ends in themselves), are shaped by our respective motivations, and passions. Understand, The Pentagon Papers are not exactly high on my list of priorities.

It's rather like Sherlock Holmes, whom Watson noted was not knowledgable in various subjects which most Englishmen would at least have a passing knowledge of--you may remember in "A Study In Scarlet", his knowledge of Philosophy, Literature, and Astronomy Watson found to be "Nil". Holmes specifically studied subjects that would assist him in his career, and ignored any other subjects as clutter that would provide distractions.

In my case, President Johnson lying about his Vietnam strategy wouldn't exactly affect my intended work--except, perhaps, as an example of "Don't lie about your foreign policy", which I could get from a variety of historical examples--as well as from my own personal honor and integrity.

 

[DimesDan]

It's rather like Sherlock Holmes, whom Watson noted was not knowledgable in various subjects which most Englishmen would at least have a passing knowledge of--you may remember in "A Study In Scarlet", his knowledge of Philosophy, Literature, and Astronomy Watson found to be "Nil". Holmes specifically studied subjects that would assist him in his career, and ignored any other subjects as clutter that would provide distractions.

You are aware aren't you that Sherlock Holmes and John Watson were fictional characters created by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and thus basing the way you treat knowledge on him, is some what flawed?

Thought so, so just checking

 

[Sci]

In my case, President Johnson lying about his Vietnam strategy wouldn't exactly affect my intended work--except, perhaps, as an example of "Don't lie about your foreign policy", which I could get from a variety of historical examples

Everybody who majors in Political Science should spend time studying the Johnson and Nixon Administrations and their lies and rationales for their lies with regards to the Vietnam War. This is a complex subject that touches on every other aspect of our understanding of politics, from foreign policy to domestic policy, to the simple state of understanding political leaders and their motivations, and of understanding the general role of dishonesty in governance. This is much more complex than just, "Don't lie about your foreign policy."

In particular, I would strongly recommend that you take the time to read Hannah Arendt's classic analysis, Lying in Politics, which can be found in her anthology Crises of the Republic (1972).

 

[Rush Limborg]

It's rather like Sherlock Holmes, whom Watson noted was not knowledgable in various subjects which most Englishmen would at least have a passing knowledge of--you may remember in "A Study In Scarlet", his knowledge of Philosophy, Literature, and Astronomy Watson found to be "Nil". Holmes specifically studied subjects that would assist him in his career, and ignored any other subjects as clutter that would provide distractions.

You are aware aren't you that Sherlock Holmes and John Watson were fictional characters created by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and thus basing the way you treat knowledge on him, is some what flawed?

Of course I know. It would be absurd if it were otherwise. I was merely using an analogy, which I was reasonably sure others would identify with.

Thought so, so just checking

Okay. Glad to help.

In my case, President Johnson lying about his Vietnam strategy wouldn't exactly affect my intended work--except, perhaps, as an example of "Don't lie about your foreign policy", which I could get from a variety of historical examples

Everybody who majors in Political Science should spend time studying the Johnson and Nixon Administrations and their lies and rationales for their lies with regards to the Vietnam War. This is a complex subject that touches on every other aspect of our understanding of politics, from foreign policy to domestic policy, to the simple state of understanding political leaders and their motivations, and of understanding the general role of dishonesty in governance. This is much more complex than just, "Don't lie about your foreign policy."

In particular, I would strongly recommend that you take the time to read Hannah Arendt's classic analysis, Lying in Politics, which can be found in her anthology Crises of the Republic (1972).

(looks at links) Hmm...I just might. I'm always willing to expand my library.

 

[Captain Robert April]

Makes me wonder how things would've gone down had they gone ahead and tried Ellsberg for treason...