Hollywood finances are always messy so I think it would be difficult to get the larger picture without a lot more information.
News Complete 1st Season to Air on CBS terrestrial in Sept
- Thread starter KennyB
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I'm sure Disney has it on record (via Corporate Tax Filings) that ALL Star Wars films produced ultimately LOST money <-- That's the gold standard in Hollywood from day one of the motion picture industry. Ultimately, NOTHING 'makes money'...it's all about the 'art'...
Agree. My gut is telling me it doesn't matter. But I'm sure there are a lot of variables and I might be oversimplifying it in my mind.
Well, the simplest explanation we are going to get is that if they keep making more then it is satisfactory in terms of ratings and revenue. Largely because those making a lot of the financial decisions come down to the bottom line. And what factors are included in those calculations are largely unknown because the model has shifted so much.
I don't think this speaks in any meaningful way to the success and value of the show for All Access/Paramount+. But I do think it probably suggests that Discovery's largely reached its potential domestic audience. It's not going to be a Marvel-level franchise. I doubt that comes as a huge surprise to anyone here, but it may disappoint some corporate executives.
That said, the paying audience it has is clearly very important for the future of the streaming service.
That said, the paying audience it has is clearly very important for the future of the streaming service.
Marvel did it right by making their universe "fun" from the get-go with Iron Man. It was a huge contrast to the Batman movie that same year. Although I haven't watched the Disney streaming shows, it seems like they've continued to keep that premise.
CBS went with literal dark with Discovery. No one can accuse them of trying to copy Disney's tactics, but they weren't going to sell as well. I think probably if they HAD went initially with SNW and all its TOS-like colors, plus the magnetism of Mount, Romjin and Peck, it might have been a better flagship to gravitate new audiences to Trek. Everyone knows about Star Trek but not everyone watches it. If they saw yellow, blue and red and the iconic shape of an Enterprise, they might have been more inclined to give it a try. Familiarity is the key now. There's a reason they stuck Sir Patrick on top of Paramount mountain on the superbowl ads and not SMG.
Which is not to say that Discovery did not work. Clearly it has, as CBS/Paramount has gone all in on Trek in a way I would never have guessed 4 years ago. It will always be the foundation that all this gets built on. But I do sometimes wonder if CBS's obsession with dark "Techie" police procedural type shows didn't bleed over into what executives wanted for Discovery. Putting it on broadcast and it not doing particularly well is just a sign that viewing habits are well and truly changed now. People who wanted to see it, already found a way to do so. People who watch CBS via cable or their local broadcast tower weren't interested, or else saw The Vulcan Hello 4 years ago and had no interest to give it another shot.
I think society itself is darker and that informed the trend, not much else.
Star Trek has always been for a niche audience and I'm not sure how wise it is to try and give the franchise more mainstream appeal. Shows like the Mandalorian, WandaVison, etc. are built for the masses. I'm sure if those shows ever make it on TV they will do well in the ratings, but again it's kind of apples to oranges.
Star Trek at times in the 60's had decent nielson ratings, and it survived very well in reruns. It managed to run two concurrent series throughout the nineties. It had an 18 year uninterrupted run from the 80's to early 0's. I wouldn't call it niche. During that run Mandalorian was obscure EU book stuff. I wouldn't have dreamed people that once snorted "nerd" derisively when faced with anything that looked like space or a robot would be avidly discussing baby yoda, Mandalorians or how Han's blastec blaster is really based off a Broomhandle Mauser. Stuff is well and truly changed. Star Trek can get that kind of audience pick up as well..
(but i will admit, i kind of hope it doesnt)
That would be amazing. It would be quite the change from most of my experience with Trek fandom.
I remember going to the first con panel for Doctor Who after the new show aired and seeing a vast sea of Nu Whuvians. They controlled the panel. At first I was delighted. Then they started talking. Felt like I had walked up to the door of my old home but the key didn't work anymore.
I mean, I probably won't like it. But, for me, it is an opportunity to explore the franchise with someone new and see it with new eyes. That's my feeling. And, honestly, I've always been on the fringe when it comes to Trek opinions so if I disagree with people nothing has really changed.
I guess I'm thinking of "niche" differently. I know TOS, TNG, etc. did well in the ratings, have aged well, and are still in syndication today, but I've never really considered them "mainstream" tv shows because they are designed to appeal to a certain type of audience. For example, my wife likes the Mandalorian and WandaVision but can't stand Star Trek. Star Trek might still have a decent sized audience but it's never been a type of show I envision gathering the family around the TV for.
That being said, it's certainly possible for Star Trek to have more mainstream appeal. The JJ Abrams movies were more mainstream. My wife liked all three of those movies.
Now that I'm typing this out, maybe I'm just defining "mainstream" based on what my wife likes.
I grew up with a mom who hated science fiction and a dad who loved TOS. Suffice to say my Star Trek watching was usually on my own or with friends but my friends preferred TNG and DS9 and I liked TOS.
Well, it was. That was literally TNG when it first aired and when it was on reruns in the '90s. I know because I was there. My family watched, my friends watched it, my friends' families watched it. Trekkie or not, people watched TNG. People who wouldn't even look at TOS and didn't go on to watch DS9 or VOY.
I don’t remember it being like that here in Australia, sadly. Sci-fi in general, and Star Trek in particular, was always on late at night and always kind of a niche thing. One station showed the Battlestar Galactica mini-series as a major prime time event. If I remember correctly it got decent ratings but got bumped to some late night slot and unceremoniously dropped two seasons in.
It's not all it's cracked up to be. While all my friends IRL were (and are) TNGers, I was the TOS Fan. So, while I could certainly talk Trek with them, none of them could really talk about "my" Trek with me. If I wanted to talk about TOS, I talked about it with my parents, older family members, or their friends. But definitely not my peers.
In the early-to-mid-'90s, in my area, daily reruns of TNG were airing on three different channels in the early evening. Channels 50, 56, and 64. There was no getting away from it. @Vger23 who also lives New England can back me up on that.
It was nice because -- as was common with TNG -- whenever I ran into a situation where I thought "Oh no! Not this episode!", I'd just switch to another channel and watch whatever episode they were showing instead.
I watched TNG almost every day from 1991 to 1996. So, because of that, I never really felt a need to go back to it, until right before Picard.
100%
Those were the good old days!
I still remember watching first-run TNG at 7pm on channel 50 followed by Tour of Duty at 8pm on Saturday nights. That was my pre-High School Saturday night tradition!
