Company Loyalty

[Cicero]

Loyalty is antithetical to capitalism.

I disagree. I think it's only antithetical to shortsighted capitalism. Research regularly bears out the benefits of developing long-term relationships between employer and employees. Well-trained employees who feel ownership of their situation produce better results for their employer; only in a world concerned with short-term profits, rather than sustainable profits over years and decades, are long-term employees a hindrance.

 

[Amaris]

Everyone's ultimately going to do what is best for them, and take care of themselves. Company loyalty is a nice idea and you shouldn't intentionally try to screw over your company, but the reality is that you need to look after your own interests because o one else is going to. There are some businesses out there that will go out of their way to help their employees, but blind trust in something like that is too big of a risk and things could change at any moment.

True, and the longer I try to get a job, the more I see desperation replacing any type of loyalty in a company. People know they can be replaced at the drop of a hat.

In general, then, it looks like company loyalty (as we know it or knew it) is a thing of the past, then. Without indulging in a rose colored glasses view of the past, it was often that people worked for the same company their whole lives, and retired from there. I do agree with Naira, in that small businesses can earn loyalty because they are small enough to care (this was echoed by others as well). Like Robert, I was loyal to the company. I wanted them to succeed. At the same time I wanted them to be fair to the employees, and for a while they were, but then toward the end, they just started hemorrhaging employees, and started bringing in new employees at a severely cut rate. We went from a full time badged/temp ratio of 90/10 at the start, to a ratio of 40/60, and by the time I left, 80/20. From what I am told by the few friends who still work there, it's 90/10. Temps do not receive benefits, and technically they don't actually work for Dell.

One other note, to gturner, actually, Dell kept quite a large amount of inventory. I worked in warranty, and the largest Dell affiliated warehouse (Dell doesn't own any property in the United States) in North America at the time. We were actually expanding to take on new inventory, while also leasing inventory for Walmart toward the last couple of months there.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

Loyalty is antithetical to capitalism.

I disagree. I think it's only antithetical to shortsighted capitalism. Research regularly bears out the benefits of developing long-term relationships between employer and employees. Well-trained employees who feel ownership of their situation produce better results for their employer; only in a world concerned with short-term profits, rather than sustainable profits over years and decades, are long-term employees a hindrance.

Sorry, but I worked for a company that developed long-term relationships with its employees. You wanna know how much they counted for when the chips were down? Fucking squat. Dozens of people who'd been with this company for 20+ years--good people, highly skilled and competent--shown the door because incompetent management ran the company into the ground.

 

[Small White Car]

I believe that company "loyalty" can only exist in small businesses. When it comes to a large corporation, the numbers are more important than the people.

Not always. My company has over 20,000 employees and hasn't had any lay-offs for over 30 years.

And it's not because times have been perfect since then. There have been bad years but they'd rather eat the salary costs in the short term than have to re-train people later on who would be much less experienced.

It's part of the company culture. ALL of our upper-level managers rose up through the ranks from low-level jobs. Our CEO started in the mail room 50 years ago. That sounds cliché but probably only in Hollywood. It's rarely the norm in the real corporate world. We really don't hire high-priced VPs or CEOs away from other companies. They come from within.

And having upper management with that background is a very powerful thing. It would take a disaster that I can't even imagine for them to start firing people. It's just not how they see things.

 

[Nerdius Maximus]

A company is there to make money. Anything they do to make you happy working for them is not done out of altruism, but to convince you to stay working for them for as they regard you as an asset.

In that context, loyalty to your employer certainly has a role to play. By being loyal to a company you preserve your perks, salary, opportunities, etc, etc. But it is not the same sort of loyalty you might show someone/something that you do not have a monetary relationship with. I leave it to another thread to debate whether altruistic loyalty is ever possible. But company loyalty is quite clearly bought loyalty, similar to what you might expect from a mercenary to his boss, and so always susceptibility to a cost-benefit financial calculus. To behave any other way towards your employer is I think to do yourself a disservice and leave yourself open to exploitation.

I have only two more working days of being directly employed by an organisation. The calculus no longer added up in favour of staying in the job.

Yeah, they exist to make money, but what they never seem to realize is that they won't be making money for long if they continue to piss everybody off. It's in their best interests to have employees who are somewhat happy. In the short-term, having a high turnover rate will save them some money, sure, but in the long run, they're missing out on the level of experience that you just can't get when you're hiring new people every six months to a year. They could have had "loyal" people working for them, busting their asses, but instead they'll end up with a bunch of people who don't give a shit because they know it's only a temporary thing. And then their company will die.

 

[Nerdius Maximus]

I believe that company "loyalty" can only exist in small businesses. When it comes to a large corporation, the numbers are more important than the people.

Not always. My company has over 20,000 employees and hasn't had any lay-offs for over 30 years.

And it's not because times have been perfect since then. There have been bad years but they'd rather eat the salary costs in the short term than have to re-train people later on who would be much less experienced.

It's part of the company culture. ALL of our upper-level managers rose up through the ranks from low-level jobs. Our CEO started in the mail room 50 years ago. That sounds cliché but probably only in Hollywood. It's rarely the norm in the real corporate world. We really don't hire high-priced VPs or CEOs away from other companies. They come from within.

And having upper management with that background is a very powerful thing. It would take a disaster that I can't even imagine for them to start firing people. It's just not how they see things.

Yeah, I think things work much better when management has actually performed a similar job to the employees he manages.

 

[SicOne]

My loyalty to my company is so great that I specified my organ donor information on the back of my driver's license to indicate that senior execs of my corporation get first-choice. As I don't drink or smoke, my organs should be cherry!

Seriously, though...I do consider myself loyal to my company. It is a good line of work that I am in and I enjoy it greatly and it has allowed me to provide for my family in a way I never dreamed possible as a college dropout, and we have a decent pension plan and great benefits. I would like to keep that gravy train on the rails, so that also has a lot to do with "company loyalty", as it were.

Regarding personal loyalty within the company, I would consider myself more loyal to people who treat me with a little respect and human dignity, but that's just human nature to work harder for someone who treats you well than someone who sees you as disposable as a #2 pencil.

I used to be somewhat dissapointed in my early (and more naive) years with my company that they did not really reward hard work and ingenuity and innovation, but nowadays I am content that my only direct feedback from my employer come$ twice a month. If they were interested in my opinion on how to run operations more intelligently than those of us in the field perceive them, I figure they would ask us. They don't, so I just follow my instructions and do the best I can with what they give me to work with. I'm content.

 

[judge alba]

I tried being loyal to the company I work at for the past 21 years only to find out that three people doing the same job as me have started on 25% more then me and are due a rise end of august. reason I aint getting a rise?

they claim I am on a seperate pay line which means my pay has been capped for the next three years and the old timers will be told in writing end of the month

Old timers?
Or long-term employees?

If it's the former, you might have an age discrimination case.

just the ones that have been working ten years plus, which equals to about 25 out of 200 employees

 

[Hermiod]

I was just thinking about the state of our economy, how many corporations are treating their employees, the need for absolute profit over the well-being of the employee (and the customer as well), and I was wondering, does company loyalty still exist? Are any of you loyal to your business

As of this Sunday coming I will have been with my current employer for ten years.

and if so, what keeps you loyal?

One thing and one thing only - they accommodate my unusual working hours.

 

[John Clark]

I guess I've been fairly loyal to the company in that I've been with them for about twenty years.

It's down to them being ok with the hours I want to work (Not that unusual, but I can finish early) good wages and being a fairly easy commute.

I also have mostly decent colleagues.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

I believe that company "loyalty" can only exist in small businesses. When it comes to a large corporation, the numbers are more important than the people.

This. Anyone who blindly trusts that a big corporation is looking out for his best interests is a fool.

It wasn't always like this, though.

Now, this is gospel truth.

I worked for RHI and was very loyal to them, and they nixed me because they were afraid of what the economy might do.

I now work for a smaller staffing firm, and I know that my boss/owner of the company cares about what happens to me.

As long as I do my best and do well for the company, he'll do right by me. The bigger corps just don't care. Why should they? They can just crank out another person to take your place.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

I believe that company "loyalty" can only exist in small businesses. When it comes to a large corporation, the numbers are more important than the people.

This. Anyone who blindly trusts that a big corporation is looking out for his best interests is a fool.

It wasn't always like this, though.

Now, this is gospel truth.

I worked for RHI and was very loyal to them, and they nixed me because they were afraid of what the economy might do.

I now work for a smaller staffing firm, and I know that my boss/owner of the company cares about what happens to me.

As long as I do my best and do well for the company, he'll do right by me. The bigger corps just don't care. Why should they? They can just crank out another person to take your place.

Even when the boss likes you, if they have to serve the interests of other people they will still can you if they must.

The President (and founder and former CEO) of my last employer was deeply upset by the layoffs, but he also had no choice. The board was unanimous and all he could do was fight specific cuts. He couldn't stop the cuts from happening at all--in fact, they wanted to cut much deeper, and they later did so.

So, it all depends on who has the final say. You could have the greatest boss in the world, but if retaining you is not something he has final say over, it's not worth much.

 

[JoeZhang]

Company Loyalty is madness, you should always be looking out for yourself.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

This. Anyone who blindly trusts that a big corporation is looking out for his best interests is a fool.

It wasn't always like this, though.

Now, this is gospel truth.

I worked for RHI and was very loyal to them, and they nixed me because they were afraid of what the economy might do.

I now work for a smaller staffing firm, and I know that my boss/owner of the company cares about what happens to me.

As long as I do my best and do well for the company, he'll do right by me. The bigger corps just don't care. Why should they? They can just crank out another person to take your place.

Even when the boss likes you, if they have to serve the interests of other people they will still can you if they must.

The President (and founder and former CEO) of my last employer was deeply upset by the layoffs, but he also had no choice. The board was unanimous and all he could do was fight specific cuts. He couldn't stop the cuts from happening at all--in fact, they wanted to cut much deeper, and they later did so.

So, it all depends on who has the final say. You could have the greatest boss in the world, but if retaining you is not something he has final say over, it's not worth much.

This is why I prefer small companies where the person with the final say is both my boss and the owner of the company.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

It wasn't always like this, though.

Now, this is gospel truth.

I worked for RHI and was very loyal to them, and they nixed me because they were afraid of what the economy might do.

I now work for a smaller staffing firm, and I know that my boss/owner of the company cares about what happens to me.

As long as I do my best and do well for the company, he'll do right by me. The bigger corps just don't care. Why should they? They can just crank out another person to take your place.

Even when the boss likes you, if they have to serve the interests of other people they will still can you if they must.

The President (and founder and former CEO) of my last employer was deeply upset by the layoffs, but he also had no choice. The board was unanimous and all he could do was fight specific cuts. He couldn't stop the cuts from happening at all--in fact, they wanted to cut much deeper, and they later did so.

So, it all depends on who has the final say. You could have the greatest boss in the world, but if retaining you is not something he has final say over, it's not worth much.

This is why I prefer small companies where the person with the final say is both my boss and the owner of the company.

Yeah. I am on a first-name basis with the CEO and CFO of this company. They're good guys. They interviewed me personally and I still talk to them on a regular basis. Even so, I can't assume they wouldn't slash things to the bone if the company hit a rough patch. I guess I'm just a bit cynical about it anymore.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

At the very least, I'd get advanced warning, and I have good feel for how the company is doing as opposed to being chopped without warning on the basis of what might happen years down the road.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

At the very least, I'd get advanced warning, and I have good feel for how the company is doing as opposed to being chopped without warning on the basis of what might happen years down the road.

I thought I had a good feel at my last job, until I found out the officers were purposely massaging the numbers to make things look better than they were. "We didn't quite hit budget, but it's not so bad because our EBITDA is still decent..." Which turned out to actually mean, "We are seriously bleeding cash and it's only by screwing with the ledgers that we can make this look half-decent!"

I don't actually see the numbers here, we just get a memo every quarter that says if we're losing money or not.

 

[Adm_Hawthorne]

I do most of the numbers here.

I suppose that's why I don't feel the bitterness.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

You do have a leg up on those of us who aren't involved with the numbers!

 

[Guartho]

I'm getting closer and closer to being able to hire someone here at my business. I can promise you that if I have an employee with J's above stated attitude he had for Dell, I'll cut my own personal income before I consider letting him or her go.

So, I conclude that company loyalty in a small business is going to be worthwhile.