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Commands turned down by Riker: Right call or Bad career moves?

TheSubCommander

Fleet Captain
Fleet Captain
When we are first introduced to Riker, we are practically beat over the head with the idea he is a young, up and coming officer, on the fast track to captain. Riker was offered 3 commands of his own, before finally taking his post on the USS Titan, but this was after serving as first officer on the Hood and two Starships Enterpirse for almost two decades.

Riker is often criticized for turning down these commands, and some have even stated it damaged his career. He had even stated he was holding out for the Enterprise-D, but like in real life, you have to start somewhere. Even Picard's first command was the Stargazer, which was far from state of the art. So, many assume by being picky, Riker was punished by starfleet and made to wait for the Titan.

Not to mention, when Riker butted heads with Jellico in chain of command, and the Pegasus incident, maybe Starfleet Command was concerned about Riker's fitness as a captain.
You can also consider the destruction of Enterprise-D as a knock against Riker's fitness (some do), but personally, I don't blame Riker for that one: Geordi had been compromised, and Riker DID manage to save pretty much the entire crew AND destroy the BOP. He also redemed himself somewhat in Insurrection, by saving the Enterprise-E in the Briar Patch, with his "Riker Maneuver."

But, when it comes to turning down the commands, I wonder if Riker actually made the right call, after all. Let's look at the ships he was offered:

USS Drake: prior to accepting assignment on the Enterprise, Riker was offered captaincy of the Drake, but turned it down. We don't know what class it was, beyond being a light cruiser. It could have meant it was a Miranda class, seeing as the first time we see Reliant, it was conducting scientific research for the Genesis project.

In any event, we learn in Arsenal of Freedom, the Drake was destroyed. We don't know how good a captain Paul Rice(Riker's class mate) was, but he must have been pretty close to Riker's abilities, since he was the second choice. Would the Drake have been destroyed if Riker was in command? We don't know for sure, but I think it is likely Riker dodged a bullet there, because even the Enterprise was almost destroyed.

USS Aries: The Aries was the second ship offered to Riker, in the Icarus Factor. I think the whole point of this offer was for writers to establish that Riker is a good starfleet officer, who is ready for a command of his own should he want it. And that was the extent of this ship as a plot device. Aries was a reconnaissance class ship, but never seen on screen. But as Picard stated of the Aries "a relatively insignificant ship, in an obscure corner of the galaxy. But it will be your ship."

If Riker had taken command of that ship, who knows what kind of name he would have made for himself. But if it were tasked to do sensor sweeps in nebulas or to patrol the Romulan border or some far off sector and thereby be a speed bump to whatever invading force (IE Borg or Dominion), I doubt Riker would have been happy in the command, even if his daddy was upset at him for not taking it. Not to mention, his un-relationship with Troi would have ended there, unless she followed him, which in the second season, I don't see Troi doing.


USS Melbourne: The "third chair" that Starfleet pulled out for Riker, and which Admiral Hanson cautioned Picard on it being probably the last, if Riker didn't take it. Even Picard advised Riker of the Melbourne that it was "A fine ship." However, had Riker taken that command, it would have been one of the shortest ones in Starfleet history, as Melbourne was destroyed at Wolf 359. The look on Riker's face when the Enterprise comes across the wreckage of the Melbourne kind of says it all: again, Riker dodged a bullet.

USS Voyager: this is completely subjective, but in the Voyager episode Death Wish, Q stated he "was betting Riker" would have taken command of Voyager. Does this mean he was offered the Voyager? Or was Q just being obnoxious and insulting towards Janeway? If the former, maybe Riker dodged a bullet on that one. Could Riker have brought back Voyager in 7 years like Janeway? Maybe he would have, and maybe Picard would have been talking to Admiral Riker via subspace, and not Admiral Janeway in Nemesis, but then again, Riker could just as easily been stranded in the Delta Quadrant for decades. We will never know.

Personal Relationships: Then, there is his on again / off again relationship with Troi. Granted, Riker did seem to use poor Deanna as a door mat, but she had her relationships too, so I think they must have had some sort of open relationship, that when they weren't dating anyone else, they were in a quasi relationship. That aside, Riker clearly had feelings for Troi, and I think that the fact Riker didn't want to leave her a second time for a Starfleet post factored greatly into his decision. Icarus Factor really highlights that. Plus, Riker seemed to be genuinely happy serving aboard the Starships Enterprise and all the other crew members. His best friend seemed to be Worf, Picard was his mentor and probably the father Riker wished he had had growing up, he seemed to be good friends with Data and Geordi. He was sort of a dutch uncle to Wesley, and was at least on friendly terms with Crusher (hell, he made out with her, when he had a symbiote in him).

USS Titan: Whatever class the Titan was canonically remains a mystery, but whatever it was, it was likely a better command than the previous three he was offered. If you read the books, it is a Luna class, that is sort of an amalgam of a sovereign class and an Intrepid class. If you believe that, then it is a pretty good ship for a first command. But the Titan could also just as easily been a Galaxy Class, Intrepid Class, or Ambassador class. Whatever class it was, it was better than the three he had been offered previously, and it must have been one that was newer than an Excelsior class, like the Melbourne (the best of the three Riker was offered).

In the end, Riker does get the the command he wanted in the USS Titan AND does get Troi. It seems it works out for him in the end.

So, did Riker make the right call in turning down 3 captains chairs, in your view? Discuss!
 
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In theory people say it means Riker is weak, but all I can say is that we know him leaving would have turned out pretty badly. If he left before BOBW Shelby would have taken over and I don't think she would have been able to stop the borg. And like you said he would have been blown up if he took the melbourne.

Jellico was also an ass in Chains of Command, not just to Riker but to Picard too. He was riding Riker since they first met. He wanted more of an assistant than a first officer.
 
They're not bad career moves, but they're bad career moves for a hungry young officer who's on the fast track for command. The problem is that what we were told about Riker is at odds with what we saw him do.

Really, Riker's entire onscreen career is fairly consistent for a different kind of officer. He's in a high-profile exec position which is expected to springboard into his own command; Starfleet keeps offering him commands. He keeps declining because in reality he's not that enthusiastic about his own command. Shelby accuses him of being afraid of the big chair, and she's right! He's warned that they're going to stop offering him commands; they do. He spends the next fifteen years as an exec, not really angling for his own ship at all, until finally he and Starfleet agree that it's time to get off his butt. (Possibly because it feels wrong to name "the Riker maneuver" after an executive officer!)

It may just be that the "hungry/up-and-coming/fast track" aspect was just something that was drilled into Riker even though it wasn't really him. Eventually Starfleet figured that out. I think the only thing really missing was seeing Riker come to the same conclusion.
 
Riker had to turn down those commands. If he had accepted any of them, Jonathan Frakes would have been out of a job.
 
Riker was offered captaincy of the Drake, due to his scientific background.
Huh?

Whatever class the Titan was canonically remains a mystery
Easily could have been a older Reliant type, with a crew of 50. The days of Starfleet "pulling out the chair" to something like the Melbourne could have been long in the past

I firmly believe that one of the main reasons Riker stayed aboard the Enterprise(s) as long as he did was because of Deanna. With the other offers of command he was unlikely to have had her come with him. After their reconnect in Insurrection he felt confident that she would accompany him in a move off the Enterprise, to new command.

When a offer was made again (perhaps owing to command casualties in the Dominion War), he took the ship offered.

Even if it was a older, small/medium sized ship.


:)
 
Riker was offered captaincy of the Drake, due to his scientific background.
Huh?

Ugh! I don't know where I got that idea! Should have read, but he turned it down! Fixed, now.

Whatever class the Titan was canonically remains a mystery
Easily could have been a older Reliant type, with a crew of 50. The days of Starfleet "pulling out the chair" to something like the Melbourne could have been long in the past

I firmly believe that one of the main reasons Riker stayed aboard the Enterprise(s) as long as he did was because of Deanna. With the other offers of command he was unlikely to have had her come with him. After their reconnect in Insurrection he felt confident that she would accompany him in a move off the Enterprise, to new command.

When a offer was made again (perhaps owing to command casualties in the Dominion War), he took the ship offered.

Even if it was a older, small/medium sized ship.:)
The only problem with that theory is there were A LOT of Miranda classes destroyed during the Dominion War. That was the go-to ship for phaser fodder! How many Mirandas could be left??

Now I can see the Titan being a smaller, mid-level ship, like an Excelsior-class, if it had been upgraded. But I have to believe that Starfleet would remember that Riker commanded the Enterprise when he and the crew saved Earth from the Borg in BOBW, and he did have a good career despite a couple bad marks. I would like to think he would have at least been given command of an Intrepid class, or something similar.

They're not bad career moves, but they're bad career moves for a hungry young officer who's on the fast track for command. The problem is that what we were told about Riker is at odds with what we saw him do.

Really, Riker's entire onscreen career is fairly consistent for a different kind of officer. He's in a high-profile exec position which is expected to springboard into his own command; Starfleet keeps offering him commands. He keeps declining because in reality he's not that enthusiastic about his own command. Shelby accuses him of being afraid of the big chair, and she's right! He's warned that they're going to stop offering him commands; they do. He spends the next fifteen years as an exec, not really angling for his own ship at all, until finally he and Starfleet agree that it's time to get off his butt. (Possibly because it feels wrong to name "the Riker maneuver" after an executive officer!)

It may just be that the "hungry/up-and-coming/fast track" aspect was just something that was drilled into Riker even though it wasn't really him. Eventually Starfleet figured that out. I think the only thing really missing was seeing Riker come to the same conclusion.

Excellent points! Wasn't it BOBW (or was it Icarus Factor) where Riker basically said that his plans for his career were his business? Maybe that could be considered when Riker figured out he didn't need to be captain before the age of 35?
 
In universe, wasn't it 10 years between 'Fleet offering Riker the Melbourne and the Titan? I suspect it wasn't so much that Starfleet was making Riker wait for another chance as they really weren't going to offer him a command after being turned down 3 times but didn't have a choice after the Dominion War. However, if Starfleet really wanted to punish Riker, they'd've given him an old beat-up Excelsior (Malinche comes to mind) and offered the brand new Titan to its (previous) skipper. Maybe Starfleet saw Riker's luck in not choosing to command ships that were lost shortly after he turned them down and took that into account when they offered him the brand-new Titan.
 
In universe it was 12 years between Melbourne (2367) and Titan (2379).

But as far as Starfleet not having a choice, eh, they always have a choice. If they were out to "get" Riker, they would continually promote other, less qualified officers.
 
Starfleet might have wanted Riker out of the First officer's slot on the Enterprise so they could then assign another up and coming officer to gain experience under Picard. Riker was blocking that from happening.

:)
 
Riker had to turn down those commands. If he had accepted any of them, Jonathan Frakes would have been out of a job.

Unless they had decided to have him accept a command once they had created Tom Riker. Then Will Riker can leave, and Data (promoted to Cmdr.) or Worf (promoted to Lt. Cmdr.) get to play XO. Tom becomes the new Ops officer. Though that would also mean that Will Riker had accepted that he had lost Deanna to his "twin."
 
Riker had to turn down those commands. If he had accepted any of them, Jonathan Frakes would have been out of a job.

Thank-you Captain Meta.

I think the biggest problem is that the Enterprise was built up too much to be *the* ship to be on. If you're on that ship you don't likely want to be anywhere else because its a ship of prestige and class. Riker could do and see things on the Enterprise that would far outclass anything he'd do or see on other ships, working with the best of the best in Starfleet.

Riker was likely enjoying his time on the Enterprise, didn't want to be anywhere else and was likely just hoping Picard would retire or be promoted at somepoint and Riker would get the Enterprise.

None of those other ships offered Riker could really live up to what he had on the Enterprise.
 
Riker made the right call. Perhaps not in terms of career trajectory, but definitely in terms of personal happiness. In the end he got a good ship and the woman he loves. His patience paid off.
 
Riker made the right call. Perhaps not in terms of career trajectory, but definitely in terms of personal happiness. In the end he got a good ship and the woman he loves. His patience paid off.

Very true. Overall that's sort of the point of this take on the future, you pretty much do what makes you happy and Riker was happy.
 
It seems to me that the conflict of whether or not he should accept command was pretty well resolved in "The Best of Both Worlds." Troi points out that he is comfortable on the Enterprise, and happy, and after saving the Federation on his first day as captain, he realizes that maybe those things are more important than an upwardly mobile career.

The theory that he stayed for Troi also holds water.

Either way, TNG can be seen as an exploration in the growth and development of Riker. It is mentioned that he was on the fast track to command, but season 1 Riker is a novice compared to season 7 Riker. Nothing highlights this more than "Second Chances." He stayed on the Enterprise, grew, and matured. Whether he stayed in order to grow and mature is debateable, but it ultimately served him very well.
 
He had even stated he was holding out for the Enterprise-D, but like in real life, you have to start somewhere. Even Picard's first command was the Stargazer, which was far from state of the art.
But Picard was already on the Stargazer when he became Captain and he loved her. He start at home, so you can't reproach to Riker to have wanted that Picard accept the admiralty to accept the captaincy.

About the meta ;), I think the mistake was to insinuate in episodes like BOBW that XO is an assignment made for future Captains, probably because they've recycled Phase II's Decker as Riker and Decker was supposed to become Captain soon.
 
For his career it was definitely a bad move, but for himself personally it may have been a good one. He was happier being second in command on the most important missions than he would have been being on the fringes, and he got to do it with people he had a sense of family with.
 
Jellico was also an ass in Chains of Command, not just to Riker but to Picard too. He was riding Riker since they first met. He wanted more of an assistant than a first officer.

This is non-sense. Jellico wasn't an ass until Riker didn't follow orders. If I was a new captain and the very first order I gave wasn't followed by my second-in-command, it would sour me on the person pretty damn quick.

If you have a problem, you state your objection when the order is given. Then carry out the order if the captain doesn't agree with your objection.

Picard coddled his people and it showed in "Chain of Command". At the slightest hint of change, his first officer and chief engineer started whining.
 
I would agree with OP that Riker certainly had some lucky escapes in turning down these commands. Many (if not all) of the ships he narrowly avoided commanding ended up having grisly fates of one description or another! :D

I do tend to think that Riker's past influenced his decisions.

He had residual feelings for Deanna and something of a guilt complex over leaving her and putting his career first, so when the opportunity arises to stay with her (and maybe rekindle the romance sometime in the future -- he's thinking of the long game on that one) he has serious decisions to make.

Also, Riker's rise through the ranks, from what we know of it, was meteoric. No doubt his early commendations for saving Captain Pressman's life and keeping schtum about Pegasus were the reason for his first major rise up the ranks from Ensign to Leiutenant. And likewise his involvement in the Nervala IV rescue seems to have again been a watershed moment in his career. Both instances are implied to have canonically happened in the space of mere years. He graduated in 2357, the Pegasus incident happened just seven months later, and then only four years after that was Nervala IV. So he went from Ensign to Lieutenant Commander incredibly fast. And Enterprise was likewise only four years after that. So in less than a decade he'd gone from being Ensign Babyface, to being the first officer of the Flagship.

Where does it all change?

Well, Deanna, as stated above. The generally accepted timeline is that he was stationed on Betazed in the gap year between Pegasus and Nervala IV. So it was like a summer romance, but he didn't even say goodbye so meeting her again on 1701-D must've given him pause for thought.

Also, perhaps Riker recognized that his fast-track rise thru the ranks was maybe resulting in him losing crucial experience. But the situation on Enterprise, taken under Picard's wing, gave him that. He wanted to sit for a while, observe and grow. He could have continued climbing the career ladder with assignments like Melbourne, but it might've resulted in him being promoted "too soon" in his own mind.

He might also have still had the niggling feeling that his entire career trajectory was based on a LIE, namely (naively) covering for Captain Pressman. So he held back, as a sort of personal penance, or maybe because he felt his first promotion following Pegasus was somehow illegitimate and he needed to make sure he does the hard yards now, if only to prove to himself that he really had what it takes to succeed on his own terms and in his own right, not just because of nepotism.

Whatever the case, it is clear that by BOBW Riker is firmly in control of his own destiny. His staying aboard Enterprise as first officer is *his* choice. He's there because he *wants* to be there. ;)
 
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