Commander Tucker?

[Nerys Myk]

Re-watching some old "Enterprise" episodes lately, I don't know why, I have noticed that Commander Tucker comes off as a little arrogant when dealing with other species. Have anyone else noticed this?

How are you defining "arrogant" here? Examples?

Even Captain Archer comes off as a little arrogant. How he achieved the rank of Captain is beyond me.

Again examples? I think it's quite possible to achieve the rank of Captain or higher in the military and be arrogant.

Maybe its the actor who's portraying him is trying too hard, or maybe he was written that way. But it's a little strange to think that a Starfleet officer who would meet other species would be calmer instead of shouting all the time. I need to watch more to see if he settles down during the later seasons, or if he remains throughout until the end.

Shouting all the time? Once more, examples?

Anyone else noticed this?

I haven't.

I think Kirk is probably more arrogant when it comes to meeting new species. He often had a "my way or the highway" approach to new species. Picard is probably more pompous than arrogant, but it's there.

thought that when Zefram Cochrane made the first warp flight and made first contact with the Vulcans, Earth changed drastically by the time 22nd Century time came around. I thought they got rid of war, poverty, disease, currency, xenophobia.

Did the arrival of Vulcan's never eradicate prejudice on Earth?

This might sound arrogant, but have you watched Star Trek? Spock and humans ( especially McCoy) exchanging race based insults. Stiles distrust of Spock after seeing the Romulans. Comment by various Enterprise crew members about Klingons. All they did was transfer those things from humans to other species and cultures.

 

[somebuddyX]

Some of the characters were a bit more hard-headed, more towards Vulcans but with them being foils to humans for the past 100 years it makes sense. I think the point was the characters were more rough than even Kirk's time, more like a mix between present day and TOS's past, whether that succeeded is up to the individual.

 

[Voth commando1]

I wonder how extensive was the Vulcan's reconstruction of human society? Did they just help them(us) rebuild or did they change human civilization in a far deeper or more long lasting way? Change beliefs? Attitudes? Means and standards for doing things?

Because humanity obviously changed a great deal from 2063 to 2154. Did the Vulcans radically retool or redevelop human society?

 

[Nerys Myk]

I wonder how extensive was the Vulcan's reconstruction of human society? Did they just help them(us) rebuild or did they change human civilization in a far deeper or more long lasting way? Change beliefs? Attitudes? Means and standards for doing things?

Because humanity obviously changed a great deal from 2063 to 2154. Did the Vulcans radically retool or redevelop human society?

Not that I can tell.

 

[somebuddyX]

I figured the Vulcans helped remove any radiation from destroyed cities and basically gave support and guidance to Earth but no actual technology or taking part in the rebuilding, at least en masse. One of the things I liked about the draft script of First Contact is that it's the human development of the replicator that solves world hunger and presumably transforms humanity into the post-scarcity world of Trek.

 

[CaptainSpirk]

In what way?

Phlox and Neelix are similar in that they were both aliens, outsiders and their mannerisms were similar. Also, they could be similar as Quark from Deep Space Nine and Spock from TOS.

How are you defining "arrogant" here? Examples?

For e.g. in the episode "The Shadows of P'Jem", Tucker was shouting at an alien council member when Captain Archer and Sub'Commander T'Pol was missing. I thought he could've got the message across by being more diplomatic than being angry and rude toward a completely new species they've never encountered. Does not bode well for future encounters.

I recently re-watched "SHUTTLEPOD ONE", a fantastic episode mind you, and even in that episode, Commander Tucker is rude toward Lt Reed, especially when they're facing certain doom. Always interrupting his log entries, his obituary and yelling at him to get some rest. Lt Reed was facing doom with certain pessimism but he had to slap him down for not being optimistic enough that they might be rescued. Fat chance given the circumstances they were in.

Again examples? I think it's quite possible to achieve the rank of Captain or higher in the military and be arrogant.

Who could forget Archer's line in "Broken Bow" to T'Pol: "You have no idea how I'm restraining myself from knocking you on your provincial ass!" What a great Captain. Arrogant SOB.

None of the captains that followed were arrogant or rude toward other species. They were graceful under pressure and never shouted at or came off as rude. Only when one of their officers were out of line, such as when Worf killed Duras, did Picard slap him down or when Wesley lied to Starfleet about performing the Koovort maneuver or whatever it was called.

Even Archer got into a few trouble with Starfleet, especially the incident at P'Jem. No diplomatic skills whatsoever. Even Kirk had a few diplomatic skills.

I think Kirk is probably more arrogant when it comes to meeting new species. He often had a "my way or the highway" approach to new species. Picard is probably more pompous than arrogant, but it's there.

This might sound arrogant, but have you watched Star Trek? Spock and humans ( especially McCoy) exchanging race based insults. Stiles distrust of Spock after seeing the Romulans. Comment by various Enterprise crew members about Klingons. All they did was transfer those things from humans to other species and cultures.

Yes, I've seen all Star Trek's by the way. Kirk, Picard, Sisko and Janeway kept cool under pressure.
Even though Spock and McCoy were insulting towards each other, they remained best friends. Kirk reminded Stiles to keep any bigotry in his quarters.
Maybe behavior improved as time progressed, who knows.

 

[Tenacity]

Who could forget Archer's line in "Broken Bow" to T'Pol: "You have no idea how I'm restraining myself from knocking you on your ass!" What a great Captain. Arrogant SOB.

The Vulcans had just recommended killing a injured patent undergoing medical treatment and T'Pol was being (typically) insulting and confrontational. Archer was giving back what the Vulcans were dishing out, the arrogance was on the part of the Vulcans.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Phlox and Neelix are similar in that they were both aliens, outsiders and their mannerisms were similar. Also, they could be similar as Quark from Deep Space Nine and Spock from TOS.

That's a pretty broad range of characters.

For e.g. in the episode "The Shadows of P'Jem", Tucker was shouting at an alien council member when Captain Archer and Sub'Commander T'Pol was missing. I thought he could've got the message across by being more diplomatic than being angry and rude toward a completely new species they've never encountered. Does not bode well for future encounters.

It's a dramatic TV show. A character getting upset that two of his friends and crewmates are missing calls for something more than calm. Being angry and rude doesn't equal arrogance. It means he's concerned. I'm willing to bet characters on the other shows have acted the same in similar situations

None of the captains that followed were arrogant or rude toward other species. They were graceful under pressure and never shouted at or came off as rude. Only when one of their officers were out of line, such as when Worf killed Duras, did Picard slap him down or when Wesley lied to Starfleet about performing the Koovort maneuver or whatever it was called.

Even Archer got into a few trouble with Starfleet, especially the incident at P'Jem. No diplomatic skills whatsoever. Even Kirk had a few diplomatic skills.

I'm thinking your dislike of Enterprise is clouding your memories of the other shows. As i said, I'm willing to bet characters on the other shows have acted the same in similar situations

Yes, I've seen all Star Trek's by the way. Kirk, Picard, Sisko and Janeway kept cool under pressure.
Even though Spock and McCoy were insulting towards each other, they remained best friends. Kirk reminded Stiles to keep any bigotry in his quarters.
Maybe behavior improved as time progressed, who knows.

The point is they insulted each other.
Stiles being called out doesn't negate the fact he, a member of this "perfect society", easily fell back to prejudice at the drop of a hat.

 

[CaptainSpirk]

Some fans have conjectured that it was it was his father's name and a personal friendship with Forrest that placed Archer in the captain's seat. Some backstory of servicing on another starship (they do have them), rising to first officer of one, or a prior extra-solar exploration mission with one would give Archer the credentials to be captain of his own starship.

All the other captains had a backstory during the show.

For instance, Captain Kirk served on the USS Republic and the USS Faragut before being promoted to captain.
Captain Picard served aboard the USS Stargazer and probably other starships.
Captain Sisko served aboard the USS Saratoga, before being transferred to DS9 and promoted to captain.
Captain Janeway served as a Science Officer on the Al-Batani before serving aboard Voyager.

Only Captain Archer and Captain Kirk (Kelvin Timeline) did not have an adequate backstory. Kelvin Kirk became a captain overnight and was a pompous ass. If Enterprise survived through seven seasons, maybe we would have gotten a backstory, who knows.

 

[Devilpogostick]

Only Captain Archer and Captain Kirk (Kelvin Timeline) did not have an adequate backstory. Kelvin Kirk became a captain overnight and was a pompous ass. If Enterprise survived through seven seasons, maybe we would have gotten a backstory, who knows.

I thought First Flight was a nice attempt to give Archer a backstory (not a full one but one that establish he wasn’t a captain overnight, he has a resume built up). I probably gave him slack that he probably wasn't part of a ship because Earth’s Starfleet wasn’t really big enough to do so though he's trained enough to be familiar with them (the NX-01 is a slight exception as it was much more highly advanced with newer tech the crew had to learn by both reading the manual and experience). He also might have a bigger focus on the NX project which kept him grounded on Earth.

Kelvin Kirk I admit is...Rough to say the least but I felt the 2009 film, flimsy with the promotion and all, was saying that Kirk can step up a notch when the chips are down. Into Darkness outside the Kahn story was tempering down on the pompous ass in Kirk. Beyond Kirk was the end result of him being far more competent at the job.

 

[Nyotarules]

Beyond Kirk was the end result of him being far more competent at the job.

So competent that he felt he could apply for promotion as a Rear Admiral? (Who writes these movie scripts?) I suppose if he skipped a few ranks the first time, he can skip one more. By the time he is 35 he will be running Starfleet.

 

[Devilpogostick]

So competent that he felt he could apply for promotion as a Rear Admiral? (Who writes these movie scripts?) I suppose if he skipped a few ranks the first time, he can skip one more. By the time he is 35 he will be running Starfleet.

Yeah...It seems Starfleet really wants to promote those who have heroics as a prerequisite. It's weird that way.

Starfleet officer 1: Wha? Isn't Admiral Youngman too...young for this?

Starfleet Officer 2: Oh, haven't you heard he defeated the Doomsday machine, the Whale Probe, 200 Borg Cubes, and the entire Dominion with his bare hands as a cadet?

Starfleet Officer 1: My god, he should be Federation President in a few years then!

Starfleet Officer 2: Right?!

 

[Nyotarules]

Yeah...It seems Starfleet really wants to promote those who have heroics as a prerequisite. It's weird that way.

Only if they are human males, re ST09, Spock's contributions are totally overlooked.

 

[Nyotarules]

Yeah...It seems Starfleet really wants to promote those who have heroics as a prerequisite. It's weird that way.

Starfleet officer 1: Wha? Isn't Admiral Youngman too...young for this?

Starfleet Officer 2: Oh, haven't you heard he defeated the Doomsday machine, the Whale Probe, 200 Borg Cubes, and the entire Dominion with his bare hands as a cadet?

Starfleet Officer 1: My god, he should be Federation President in a few years then!

Starfleet Officer 2: Right?!

More like make him or her Emperor for life lol

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I wonder how extensive was the Vulcan's reconstruction of human society?

I'm firmly convinced that the Vulcans must have helped in the cleanup and rebuilding after World War III. There is NO way that human civilization could have made such a rapid and complete recovery from a global nuclear war after only a hundred years - unless they had help.

I mean, there's entire cities that must have been destroyed and rebuilt from scratch. That would take ages. Takes long enough to construct one building, after all (at least a decade, for something like a major skyscraper or tower) - so rebuilding an entire city from the ground up would take centuries.

And of course most of the world economy and infrastructure would be in ruins after a nuclear war. How can you rebuild when there's nothing left to rebuild WITH?

Besides, it would provide some context as to why Vulcan would hold back Earth's development after the war. Vulcan would want "payback" for services rendered. And they'd be afraid that Earth would just repeat the same mistakes unless Vulcan guidance was given...

 

[questella]

I always felt the more brash personalities fit into the preoriginal Star Trek feel.

 

[WARLOCK1965]

Re-watching some old "Enterprise" episodes lately, I don't know why, I have noticed that Commander Tucker comes off as a little arrogant when dealing with other species. Have anyone else noticed this?

For example, when he's talking to someone on the viewscreen, he's alway's shouting at them for some strange reason. He's even always rude to the Vulcans, this is understandable. I don't think he attended Starfleet's class on how to be diplomatic to other species, as that is not the way to communicate with them. If it were other officers, such as Riker during Picard's era or the officers during Janeway's era, they would have been demoted in an instant.

Even Captain Archer comes off as a little arrogant. How he achieved the rank of Captain is beyond me.

This is probably why I never liked the show to begin.

Maybe its the actor who's portraying him is trying too hard, or maybe he was written that way. But it's a little strange to think that a Starfleet officer who would meet other species would be calmer instead of shouting all the time. I need to watch more to see if he settles down during the later seasons, or if he remains throughout until the end.

Anyone else noticed this?

Commander Tucker has a lot of pressure on him first wrap 5 starship so you any problems that comes up he will have to check the book for answers and if none are founded then he will have to figure it out and write down to be added to the ship engineering guide lines and how well could any of us handle it.

 

[retroenzo]

Bearing in mind that some on Earth felt that the Vulcans had held them back, including Archer and Tucker. I think a lot of the behaviour towards the Vulcans stemmed from that resentment. Plus people like Tucker were still learning about alien races. I'm thinking of when he yelled at the mother/son on Rigel X in Broken Bow when he misunderstood what was happening.

I can imagine a lot of it was down to nerves too. Some were better and controlling it than others. Hoshi used to look scared silly even at the slightest strange sounds from the hull.

 

[WARLOCK1965]

Bearing in mind that some on Earth felt that the Vulcans had held them back, including Archer and Tucker. I think a lot of the behaviour towards the Vulcans stemmed from that resentment. Plus people like Tucker were still learning about alien races. I'm thinking of when he yelled at the mother/son on Rigel X in Broken Bow when he misunderstood what was happening.

I can imagine a lot of it was down to nerves too. Some were better and controlling it than others. Hoshi used to look scared silly even at the slightest strange sounds from the hull.

Great answer and so true

 

[Pippin]

Well hopefully I didn't feed a troll.

As for being retro enough, I've heard that "criticism" before. It doesn't make any sense. Are they supposed to use 60s props? I personally feel they did a good job of capture the ST look while updating the props to modern TV [at the time] standards.

I remember when "The Voyage Home" came out people complained that the time travel sequence wasn't the same as was portrayed in "The Naked Time" episode.

Some people's kids ...